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How to have a billion dollar exit with zero capital gains tax

axiomalpha.com

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Re: How to have a billion dollar exit with zero capital gains tax

#241
post #68

Unfashionable thought: pay your damn taxes. Loopholes are one thing and IMO should be closed but morality is another. The whole idea that you can make a billion dollar business without being hugely dependent on the infrastructure, education, history, societal background etc that has largely been paid for by...taxes...is utter fallacy. Maybe if massively profitable businesses spent a bit more time doing the right thin…

Honest to god, I'm kind of stunned by the people with tens to HUNDREDS of millions, liquid, that will go great lengths to avoid, even evade, taxes. You see people move to other countries for "tax purposes" alone. Or people that will create elaborate schemes. Of course, I understand that if you're in that wealth bracket, the actual tax/accounting acrobatics is abstracted from you. You probably hire some consultant to…

If you don't see 800M as being different from 500M, then you'd just stop at 500 and never end up in that situation.

Your basic premise is flawed.

Re: How to have a billion dollar exit with zero capital gains tax

#242
post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It adds insult to injury that a billionaire real estate mogul made EXACTLY this argument when selling his tax policy and business conduct (I’m just being a good businessman, and I’ll fix the rigged system by getting rid of loopholes!), then turned around and got rid of special deductions for normal folks and created a massive special interest handout for real estate moguls.

got rid of special deductions for normal folks I assume you're talking about the SALT deduction? The one that mostly benefits the highest income earners? Interesting how when people personally benefit from a tax break it's "entirely justified", but when someone else does it's a "massive special interest handout".

A two earner household with a cop and a nurse benefited from SALT.

The average beneficiary of opportunity zones is generationally wealthy. A pair of tech workers pulling down 7 figures a year are stupidly wealthy and still would probably not have enough capital to be the primary beneficiary of an opportunity fund.

I’m not going to defend the salt deduction because I’m not a fan of it for the reasons you mention, but comparing SALT to opportunity zones is genuinely delusional.

Pitting the lower middle class against the upper middle class over a modestly regressive tax break while folks who haven’t worked in three generations pay a 0% tax rate on the fruits of others’ labor.

Re: How to have a billion dollar exit with zero capital gains tax

#243
Well I would not do that. Just gross, I mean for me, you can do as you wish, dodge this tax and that impost, and then of course end up greasing the wheels because the government is, morally speaking, forced to take bribes at that point if everyone's trying to become a billionaire without paying a dollar in capital gains. Forget the orphanage right? Or like do you want to make a 510c3 gift, or do a raffle, I mean from your perspective, I'm trying to see it from your perspective.

So like then instead of paying the orphanage tax you pay the Ferrari tax and the...the handbag tax of the brand, but like always dodging actual luxury taxes, just paying for the brand. Like paying for the advertising, the...the events, like the Rolex sailing thing? Dude I rather hang out with one of my evicted buddies than go to that shit. As long as I'm squandering money, rather buy Jonnie the beer he's asking for so he can sleep, without judging him. And at obviously placing the burden on myself to help him, like making sure I have coins in my pockets for the beggars before I leave my house. Or a couple times when he asked, I'd tell him to let me get some change I knew I had at home to bring him. It's this whole Christianity thing.

Though normally not talk about that, supposedly charity you're not meant to talk about. Well I guess it's not glamorous charity. And the whole thing about charity being private sort of works sort of doesn't, the Gates Foundation has a huge amount of publicity centered around, I think, the size of William Gate's fortune, reputed to be the world's greatest. But on the other hand, you have Laurene Powell Jobs, I knew someone she was indirectly paying wages to that had literally no idea where the money was coming from, like she used a corporation instead of a 510c3 for privacy and liberty in giving. So then Laurene Jobs came out in public, saying (paraphrase) this sucks, why rag on the Jobs's so much like they're niggardly, and then she opened up about the giving and then that someone I knew found out wages were coming from her. Basic reason it doesn't work is you can't know for sure, as a society, if the rich individual is giving anything at all or just hoarding. That's what's up in Chile, the rich just hoard. Acaparan in Spanish, but that's like a Communist-word. Well myself included, compared to Jonnie I'm rich, no two ways about it.

And that's why I love paying taxes, so taxes are the escape hatch for this moral dilemma, you can by all means tell everyone what you're paying in taxes. Taxes are not charity. If you pay...I think I paid $80 extra split half-and-half State of California and Federal taxes, which I could do by asking about a form at the temp job agency at which I worked this...this menial but mostly dignified labor role...so I payed an absolute tax rate of 45%. I have the W-2 still, looks like I earned $300, obviously outside income but that's not what's in question. So that's why I'm quoting numbers, as well as I can remember, because it's not charity, it's not like being a sugar daddy, it's like being a husband. The money is demanded and if I choose, due to what is considered a masochistic loophole which nobody ever uses or talks about, but which appeared on-screen as a pre-filled 0 so I could ask about it...so because the state demands money and it's obligatory in general, that has more dignity. Because if you can pay a bit, you ought to. Not like they have to throw a party for you to sign a little check, no, DEMAND it. Just like education for children, it's GOOD that's it be OBLIGATORY. OBLIGATORY. And if you want to teach your child more after school, by all means. And like no capital gains on a billion dollars? OBVIOUSLY TAXES ARE A STUPID POINT SYSTEM BECAUSE EVERYTHING IS A STUPID POINTS SYSTEM, THERE'S NO ALTERNATIVE, YOU'RE NOT AS CLEVER AS YOU THINK YOU ARE. Just submit.

Plus being a billionaire makes you a high-value target, in addition to a qualified investor, and there's more price discrimination. The only people that price-discriminate transparently are the Government. I would say they are the least predatory. If you really do pay up without avarice, they won't chisel you. And keep in mind the perk of having the FBI available for eg abductions or blackmail, extortion, what you might term "first world problems." But not if you're dirty from cheating the system. Totally different vibe.

Speaking as to USA, there's different situations. The worst thing, the absolute worst thing, is dropping your US citizenship, because everyone knows the only real reason for that is avoiding taxes, or for avoiding going to war. Or both. Then it's open season. When the US Government says, and tax lawyers repeat this, fat pigs get slaughtered, it means you have to show respect for the point system and only hack a little here and there in additive, not multiplicative ways. And in a manner that conforms to American values and norms. Like middle-class gets to carve out the primary residence from capital gains I think, that's a super American value.[1] Or like making your career about intellectual property, especially inventions. What would a house be without them? Or what would we be without them? Still apes, no clothes, no fire, no tools. Hands are for inventions, and hands make us special to the exclusion of everything else. Otherwise we'd be knuckle-dragging. Plus America had so many great inventors, endless, still does they're just...it's different like everyone's delegating now. Trying to find the innovation in another field, rather than banging them out on their own. Or AI.[2]

Like you can get very very rich in America, just accept the friction it comes with.

[1] And it's American in tandem with being favored by the tax system, the two are inseparable.

[2] Despite this being my line of business, soon to be hosted in www.fgemm.com, I have a negative view of matrix multiplication for this purpose. I think as a tool in a toolbox, to be used sparingly and not relied upon completely. Never a substitute for creativity, and thinking. And using your hands instead of just the brain, real inventors did that.

Re: How to have a billion dollar exit with zero capital gains tax

#244
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government is not a charity. If they have deemed something to be non-taxable, it's because the government (and by extension, the people it represents) want to incentivize that particular activity, in this case investing in economically depressed areas. If at some point we no longer want to incentivize that behavior, the government can simply remove the tax break. Moralizing about how people shouldn't engage in th…

This is why people should stop complaining about religions. Of course it's done for the tax break. You don't cede power when the government allows you to grab it. If you want your special interest group to thrive in the US, get with the program and exploit the tax loopholes before they're gone.

I can't imagine what it's like to live in your head. It's like you can't even grasp how what you said is wrong on so many levels.

Re: How to have a billion dollar exit with zero capital gains tax

#245
post #68

Unfashionable thought: pay your damn taxes. Loopholes are one thing and IMO should be closed but morality is another. The whole idea that you can make a billion dollar business without being hugely dependent on the infrastructure, education, history, societal background etc that has largely been paid for by...taxes...is utter fallacy. Maybe if massively profitable businesses spent a bit more time doing the right thin…

> The whole idea that you can make a billion dollar business without being hugely dependent on the infrastructure, education, history, societal background etc that has largely been paid for by...taxes...is utter fallacy. Taxation is not a transaction you enter voluntarily; it's enforced by violence, and all these rationalizations don't matter as you don't have any choice anyway. So, taxation is either extortion, robb…

If choose to not make any money and own nothing, you pay no taxes. You can also "just move lol" to another country where there is no taxation.

>tax evasion is simply a moral obligation for everyone who believes that people should not be subject to violence.

Some people should definitely be subjected to violence. It's not hard to find examples where violence is justified. Even a Buddhist monk will forcefully stop a child from touching a venomous snake and make the child cry.

You don't enter life voluntarily, you don't go to school voluntarily, you don't go to the hospital voluntarily when you fell on your head, become unconscious and slowly bleed out...

Re: How to have a billion dollar exit with zero capital gains tax

#246
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we keep putting special-interest clauses in our tax codes like these 'business opportunity zones' without expecting everyone who is capable to come in and exploit them to the maximum extent possible, that is really on us.

The intent is that people will show up and use them. The main intent is that they be things like machine shops and the like that supply jobs and a bit of spin of economic activity (workers go get lunch etc). Having people work in a coworking space may not be what they had in mind, but if those people go out to lunch in the zone, mission accomplished. You can argue if that works well or not but the tax advantage does…

In many states OZs were selected as political handouts and were placed in areas where development was already planned. The characterization that they lifted up poor regions is pure horseshit.

Re: How to have a billion dollar exit with zero capital gains tax

#247

There's an opportunity zone adjacent to Palo Alto that extends into Menlo Park. It has a Four Seasons hotel in it. There are other areas nearby that could use the investment incentive a lot more IMO. Who decided on these zones? Seems totally arbitrary.

Governors. Many tracts were selected as political favors to donors to developers who already owned significant acreage in the OZ.

Re: How to have a billion dollar exit with zero capital gains tax

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what's the difference between sitting on say $500MM in cash, and $800MM? At least $15M a year over most 3 year horizons, or the insane compounding effect of $300M invested over the long haul. Your question makes sense from a "normal" perspective, but doesn't once you're UHNW [0]. > It's either way going to be more money than you'll ever be able to spend. Not even close. At UHNW levels there are whole classes of thi…

> At least $15M a year over most 3 year horizons, or the insane compounding effect of $300M invested over the long haul. How about the insane compounding effect of a better funded society, through less multi-mill/billionaire tax avoidance? > Your question makes sense from a "normal" perspective, but doesn't once you're UHNW Or rather, it makes sense from a normal (non quotes) perspective, but not from the point of a…

That's dependent on believing that your government spends money effectively.

Re: How to have a billion dollar exit with zero capital gains tax

#249

Anyone interested in the actual map, it can be found here: https://cimsprodprep.cdfifund.gov/CIMS4/apps/pn-nmtc/index.a... The purpose of the QOZ is to encourage investment in those areas, and it does this by favorable tax conditions. Some of these areas are surprising, at least around me I see areas designated that aren't much different from the surrounding areas. And there are rural ones, too. Looking at some of th…

It’s about who owned the land in 2017 and who was governor. Some states were less corrupt than others, but as a general rule OZs were and are mostly political grift with a few legit trades thrown in for cover.

The reason that HUGE tracts of OZs make no sense is that the “for development of blighted areas” thing is very thinly veiled bullshit.

Re: How to have a billion dollar exit with zero capital gains tax

#250
post #70
post #68

Unfashionable thought: pay your damn taxes. Loopholes are one thing and IMO should be closed but morality is another. The whole idea that you can make a billion dollar business without being hugely dependent on the infrastructure, education, history, societal background etc that has largely been paid for by...taxes...is utter fallacy. Maybe if massively profitable businesses spent a bit more time doing the right thin…

I was going to say that this article should be titled “how to steal from society”, so I’ll join you in downvote-city, comrade.

I really think the opportunity zones were created for precisely the purposes described in the article. We’ve made a strategic decision to forego taxes in certain areas in order to incentivize investment in poor (traditionally minority) areas. The rules were created specifically so that people would use them.

It would rise to the level of cheating if you abuse the rules. Investing in an opportunity zone, starting a business there, improving property, employing people, re-investing there. These are all the intended effects of opportunity zones.

It seems like an awesome loophole, but it’s not. The hole was put there deliberately. It’s meant to be used.

If you’re curious, take a tour of your nearest opportunity zone. Imagine starting a business there. Imagine your employees shopping at the bodega on the corner, grabbing lunch on the street, using the run-down auto repair shop because it’s convenient. If you’re willing to locate your business in an area we’ve decided we want revitalized you can realize tax benefits. But there’s some risk, so do it with open eyes.

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