Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Welcome to the era of the hyper-surveilled office

economist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 180 posts

Re: Welcome to the era of the hyper-surveilled office

#51

Post by Qem »

formerkrogemp wrote: post #9
emptyparadise wrote: post #4

Feels like every damn thing that happens gets used as a pretext to enable more and more surveillance. Will we need job boards specifically for jobs that don't do surveillance too? >Last year Fujitsu, a Japanese technology group, unveiled AI software which promises to gauge employees’ concentration based on their facial expression. Just need software that punishes employees who aren't happy enough at work, then we'll…

Nah, in retail, we used to have this software known as "secret shoppers." If they didn't see someone smiling, the store or department would be docked points on its evaluation, and you'd be hearing about it from your boss and boss's boss. Now all of us WFH minions below the lowly programmers will be subject to a smiling rictus as our cameras, microphones, and keyloggers determine productivity scores, work morale, and…

How long before somebody uses AI to permasmile your face in virtual conferences? The market is ripe for an arms race here.

Re: Welcome to the era of the hyper-surveilled office

#52

Post by ZaoLahma »

aoms wrote: post #11
emptyparadise wrote: post #4

Feels like every damn thing that happens gets used as a pretext to enable more and more surveillance. Will we need job boards specifically for jobs that don't do surveillance too? >Last year Fujitsu, a Japanese technology group, unveiled AI software which promises to gauge employees’ concentration based on their facial expression. Just need software that punishes employees who aren't happy enough at work, then we'll…

Alternatively you could just treat your employees well and they will want to perform for you.

... or treat and think of your employees as human beings who sometimes are more productive than usual and sometimes less productive than usual, but on average perform "well enough".

If companies aim for maximum, minimum and average to trace one flat line across diagrams visualizing some kind of performance metrics, then us humans will never ever live up to those expectations.

Re: Welcome to the era of the hyper-surveilled office

#53

Post by dipsplacemat »

bojangleslover wrote: post #31
nonrandomstring wrote: post #7

Quoted post unavailable.

"Dark satanic mills"

It's from a hymn describing the environmental destruction of the industrial revolution:

And did those feet in ancient time \ Walk upon England’s mountains green? \ And was the holy Lamb of God \ On England’s pleasant pastures seen?

And did the Countenance Divine \ Shine forth upon our clouded hills? \ And was Jerusalem builded here \ Among these dark Satanic mills?

Bring me my bow of burning gold: \ Bring me my arrows of desire: \ Bring me my spear: O clouds unfold! \ Bring me my chariot of fire.

I will not cease from mental fight, \ Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand \ Till we have built Jerusalem \ In England’s green and pleasant land.

Re: Welcome to the era of the hyper-surveilled office

#54

Post by moolcool »

This is what scares me about Metaverse. Initially I was like "Oh good, Facebook is blowing all of their resources on a bad idea everyone hates. I hope this goes badly for them!". Then I realized, the target audience for Metaverse won't have a choice-- it'll be a virtual office where people can work from home while under constant surveillance.

Re: Welcome to the era of the hyper-surveilled office

#55

Post by swayvil »

aoms wrote: post #11
emptyparadise wrote: post #4

Feels like every damn thing that happens gets used as a pretext to enable more and more surveillance. Will we need job boards specifically for jobs that don't do surveillance too? >Last year Fujitsu, a Japanese technology group, unveiled AI software which promises to gauge employees’ concentration based on their facial expression. Just need software that punishes employees who aren't happy enough at work, then we'll…

Alternatively you could just treat your employees well and they will want to perform for you.

Costs too much. Fear is cheaper.

Re: Welcome to the era of the hyper-surveilled office

#57

Post by swayvil »

BlargMcLarg wrote: post #17
emptyparadise wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow that's the last thing anyone ever wants to try.

Even better is the hypocrisy. "We value your autonomy! We know studies say happy, autonomous workers perform better!" Proceeds to stifle autonomy by invading your privacy in whatever way is legal or difficult to prove illegal.

Lies are our most inexpensive resource. Use them wherever possible.

Re: Welcome to the era of the hyper-surveilled office

#58

Post by mschuster91 »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #30
coldtea wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Feels like every damn thing that happens gets used as a pretext to enable more and more surveillance. If bosses could have slaves working for them, a vast majority of them would use slaves in an instant, without thinking about it. At best, they'd use a contractor or two removed from them, to mitigate the ethical accusations (same way they justify the use of sweatshops, child labor in mines, violently threatening an…

^This a thousand times over. The workers' benefits we enjoy today in Europe like 8 hour workdays, minimum 20 days vacation, paid sick leave, free healthcare, pensions, unemployment benefits, etc. were due to the communist movements sweeping Europe after WW2 which governments and industrialists fought hard to suppress so they had to give concessions to the workers in order to keep their business afloat and prevent the…

> But, the collective labor pushback has stopped since the great offshoring took over in the last 30 years thanks to globalization, and various labor unions lost their power

Not just that. A large portion of the loss of influence of unions was the riseup of the pacifist dogma. Just look how all the benefits were won: by (sometimes extremely) brutal violence, by the blood of the workers who died by the hands and guns of corporate goons [1].

A very good example is the social structure and workers rights of the two neighboring countries France and Germany. French workers are routinely willing and able to commit to violence both in the office (in the form of "bossnapping") and on the streets and the public supports that, and when German protests escalate into a couple of banks getting redecorated with paint, concerned citizens turn up to clean the fucking bank [2]!

As a result of that difference in attitude, German workers have it way worse than French workers - politicians in France know that the cost of going against the people is high. A society that doesn't fight for its rights eventually gets taken over by those that do. Democracy is not god-given, it is earned by blood and needs continuous maintenance, otherwise it erodes.

[1] https://www.investopedia.com/the-10-biggest-strikes-in-u-s-h...

[2] https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/g20-in-hamburg-bu...

Re: Welcome to the era of the hyper-surveilled office

#59

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

imranq wrote: post #46
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

^This a thousand times over. The workers' benefits we enjoy today in Europe like 8 hour workdays, minimum 20 days vacation, paid sick leave, free healthcare, pensions, unemployment benefits, etc. were due to the communist movements sweeping Europe after WW2 which governments and industrialists fought hard to suppress so they had to give concessions to the workers in order to keep their business afloat and prevent the…

Is getting a job so competitive? Last I heard there was a labor shortage

There's a shortage of people willing to work in terrible conditions.

I'd usually add "for a pittance," but I see FAANG (is it now "MAANG"?) companies offering pretty insane salaries, but they are notorious for difficult working conditions.

Re: Welcome to the era of the hyper-surveilled office

#60

Post by flatiron »

osigurdson wrote: post #44
davidkuennen wrote: post #2

I'm convinced that keeping track if your employee is visibly working or not is so fundamentally wrong. Especially in an office setting. Just look at the output. Nothing more. Does the employee provide value at the end of the day or not. That's important. Not hours or anything else.

Actual output is often hard to measure so we instead gravitate toward various easy-to-measure metrics - hoping that these are proxies for the real thing. The quantitative appearance of such metrics is intoxicating, particularly when it allows us to avoid thinking deeply about what would actually make a business better.

Also gives them an easy reason to get rid of anyone.
Post reply on HN