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NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

nysenate.gov

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Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#511

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

nradov wrote: post #508
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"most of us" don't understand the basic concept of marginal tax rates, and "most of us" don't understand the idea of marginal utility. "most of us" have in some form or another been doused in a firehose of "the only good tax rate is a lower tax rate" propaganda generated over (at least) the last 40 years. For a long time, the USA (like many other post-industrial revolution countries) has accepted that "fair" means us…

Most of us understand the concept of marginal tax rates just fine. We're arguing about the optimal shape of the curve. Everyone (with a few exceptions) seems to prefer that the curve should trend up sharply just past their own income level.

At least half, and I would say as a hand-waving number, maybe as much as 75% of the comments I see in any online comment thread to any news-y-ish thing demonstrate a complete failure to understand marginal tax rates.

Closer to home: my kids don't understand it. My wife doesn't understand it. Most of my in-laws don't understand it.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#512

Post by refurb »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #474
refurb wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4495123 “ "Then I found out that this other country — which I thought had a healthcare system that was so superior to the U.S. — doesn't test for the tumour marker that saved my life, and doesn't cover this drug that is responsible for pushing my cancer into remission after traditional chemotherapy failed to do that."”

"... and then I found out that this other country - which I thought had the best healthcare system in the world - allowed for-profit insurance companies to dictate what treatment would be paid for, and allowed millions of people without insurance to likely go without any sort of test for cancer at all."

I'm not sure I'd feel better with the explanation "No, we won't pay to cure your cancer, but hey, if you were in the US there is a chance they won't pay for it either!"

Pretty sure I'd prefer even a 5% chance versus a guaranteed 0%.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#513

Post by nceqs3 »

marricks wrote: post #223
nceqs3 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You ever been to a Canadian hospital?

I have Canadian friends and it sounds better than when my older brother had to call their insurance company every months to get their anxiety meds covered because, for some reason, the insurance company lost the paper work for approving them every month. For a year. Funny because it’s just the sort of thing to cause more anxiety in an anxious person. I’d also love hear how many Canadian cancer survivors have to put u…

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4495123

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#514

Post by nceqs3 »

refurb wrote: post #512
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"... and then I found out that this other country - which I thought had the best healthcare system in the world - allowed for-profit insurance companies to dictate what treatment would be paid for, and allowed millions of people without insurance to likely go without any sort of test for cancer at all."

I'm not sure I'd feel better with the explanation "No, we won't pay to cure your cancer, but hey, if you were in the US there is a chance they won't pay for it either!" Pretty sure I'd prefer even a 5% chance versus a guaranteed 0%.

Not to mention the fact that the entire argument is a strawman. US insurance companies almost always fold in the end.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#515

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

nceqs3 wrote: post #514
refurb wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I'd feel better with the explanation "No, we won't pay to cure your cancer, but hey, if you were in the US there is a chance they won't pay for it either!" Pretty sure I'd prefer even a 5% chance versus a guaranteed 0%.

Not to mention the fact that the entire argument is a strawman. US insurance companies almost always fold in the end.

Folding doesn't help someone with a US$7000 deductible but no means to pay it.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#516

Post by Taniwha »

dahfizz wrote: post #426
Taniwha wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah here in NZ we pay 39% marginal over $180k, 33% $70k-180k - no state tax - mostly free public health (5$/drug $100 max per year, $30 to visit GP, nothing for hospital/urgent care/everything else) What we don't do is spen d all our money on a military industrial complex

> What we don't do is spen d all our money on a military industrial complex I know it's a bit of a meme, but military spending is far from our only problem. We could cut military spending to $0 and not even make a dent in the defecit , let alone be able to cut taxes. Social security, Medicare, and medicaid together make up 42% of federal spending. (Not to mention food assistance, housing assistance, unemployment, or…

last year we spent 25% on social welfare (everything from retirement pensions to the dole), 17% on healthcare for all, 13% on education (from preschool to tertiary) - military was ~3%

One big difference of course is that here in NZ the govt owns the hospitals and doesn't run them for profit, no one takes a cut providing insurance either. We bulk buy pharma for the entire country. We also have a no-fault accident insurance scheme that takes personal injury out of the courts (fewer courts, fewer lawyers, smaller law schools in universities)

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#517

Post by nceqs3 »

_-david-_ wrote: post #207
Ekaros wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe good question to ask is what makes it more expensive? Is it bloated administration and insurance system? Or is there some fundamental other difference?

One reason is it is expensive to fund the research and testing and so the companies need to recoup that cost. They cannot in Europe and Canada due to price controls which means people in the US offset the cost. The US is basically subsidizing other Western countries.

^This guy gets it.

Also, in nearly every parliamentary system the state's ability to quickly invalidate patents by an act of parliament gives them even more leverage in the negotiations with drug companies.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#518

Post by nceqs3 »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #515
nceqs3 wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention the fact that the entire argument is a strawman. US insurance companies almost always fold in the end.

Folding doesn't help someone with a US$7000 deductible but no means to pay it.

Legit every major drug company would give you the drug in question for free, not to mention Medicaid, which if you can't afford 7k, you would easily qualify for.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#519

Post by [deleted] »

MrWiffles wrote: post #316
mortehu wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're talking wages here, what are the options exactly? Is there anything bigger than 401(k)? This is ignoring charity, which I believe is available to anyone anyway.

I believe - someone more financially literate (and far richer!) correct me if I'm wrong - that you can convert some of those wages into various different vehicles and get paid in non-wage forms in certain cases. Correlation != causation of course, but if you're making $500k/year chances are pretty good a large chunk of that is non-wage income such as capital gains, corporate bonuses, trust funds, etc. And even if it…

[deleted]

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#520

Post by OrvalWintermute »

astura wrote: post #503
OrvalWintermute wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Most Americans have never experienced a system like that, and will fight tooth and nail against things they don't understand or have experienced. They are told by billionaires who run the media empires that universal healthcare is expensive, will ruin the country, will remove their ability to get appointments scheduled. My wife, a practicing physician, did fellowships in multiple countries like this. I asked her for…

>"horrible waiting periods for elective care, and non-emergent surgeries" Same as in the US. Three months is the minimum. Hell, I couldn't even schedule a tooth cleaning with a new dentist less than six months out - I called close to 10 dentist offices.

> Same as in the US. Three months is the minimum.

big nope.

Wife is booking emergent same day, and depending on the case length and type, 1-2 weeks for most cancer cases, up to a month for a complex deep inferior epigastric perforators flap breast reconstruction surgery which is a long surgery if bilateral; getting that much OR time is a challenge. They'll book for saturdays if they need. Cases that can be done in a surgery center are quick; major cases that require a hospital OR, and other physician clearances take longer to coordinate.

The longest backlog (1 year) in the practice is actually a 99% cosmetic plastic surgeon who is an instagram famous Michelangelo of Brazilian Butt Lifts.

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