Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm from the UK, which is basically fully free-at-point-of-use healthcare (you pay a nominal fee for prescriptions, dentistry, optician) and is often championed as a great option. Reality is it's pretty grim. Don't know if I'd recommend it to other countries to be honest. Be careful what you wish for!
UK does not have single payer, their system is nationalized. Big difference, especially with capitated plans that medicare is championing. Competition is what makes capitalism great, single payer is the best way to accomplish it among medical providers.
NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers
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Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers
#412Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Reality is it's pretty grim. Don't know if I'd recommend it to other countries to be honest. As someone who's never experienced the UK health care system, and only know one person who has (as a foreigner, so they paid out of pocket and said the experience was positive, but otherwise not a good data point) ... I'd like to hear a bit more detail about how it's pretty grim, if you're willing to elaborate.
I'd love to get you to listen in to a phone call where I try to get an appointment with my doctor. You'd have to be up at 0800 on the dot, while I desperately try to get into the phone queue. Then you'll hear me beg with the world's rudest receptionist for an appointment, which I won't get. There's no incentive for these people to be helpful or polite, because they get paid anyway and there's no market, so they aren'…
That said the reason we don't do as much in the way of screening and yearly physicals of young healthy individuals is because there's very limited evidence that it's even helpful and sometimes even evidence that it's harmful.
That isn't to say they don't sometimes save a life, but they also cause unnecessary medical procedures and needless medical anxiety. What kind of early cancer detection is really happening at a yearly physical? You could argue that a doctor telling you to lose weight might help reduce obesity or diabetes, but so far that doesn't seem to be working.
Even if you do catch and treat a cancer, was it a slow progressing cancer that never would have caused an issue for the patient? This is particularly significant when you're looking at someone in their 80s.
If you have any health conditions, have a family history of disease, are taking repeat prescriptions or are above 40, you will start being offered regular checkups and screening.
You can also book a private GP or checkup if you want, or even just pay for a periodic blood test. The NHS/NICE has decided the evidence base doesn't exist to support it, but you're free to decide otherwise if you wish.
Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers
#413Earlier quoted context omitted.
Very broad strokes, doctors in the US are overpaid and conservatives legislated Medicare can't negotiate drug prices. Lots of room to drive down costs. Spending is high because of a dysfunctional system driven by profit instead of care. https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/03/12/702500408/are-... https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.2010.... https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/10/25/opinion/let-medi…
We already have a shortage of doctors and it is very expensive to become a doctor. How will paying doctors less help this? We need to reduce requirements for becoming a doctor and have "tiers" so people who just do family doctor things only need to know family doctor things. Prescription drug spending is less than 20% of medicare. Negotiating prices might help but taking that 20% to 10% still leaves healthcare as a v…
Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers
#414Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you're renting, your landlord is paying property tax and passing it on to you.
By that logic, no one pays taxes except consumers.
Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers
#415With California and New York both exploring statewide single payer healthcare it looks like the Overton window is moving closer to legitimate discussion of a nationwide single payer plan in the US. It’ll be interesting to watch, since this is such a hot-button topic here on many levels.
Why would you want it nation wide? Even if you “support it”, I’d much rather watch the implications from the various experiments across states. Then we can select the best option. Personally, I’d like to see some states ban healthcare outright. Others have full coverage and everything in between. Then wait 10 years and we can see the results. I strongly suspect there would be states willing to do this.
Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers
#416Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Coming from a country that has this, there should be caution It's big world - without knowing which country, this is of little help. I'd like to see a comparison of people forced into debt, bankruptcy or death due to the respective medical systems This hits home because I have a friend that got cancer with "good" U.S. insurance and if he did not fight the insurance company he'd be in debt for 1mm+
I'm from the UK, which is basically fully free-at-point-of-use healthcare (you pay a nominal fee for prescriptions, dentistry, optician) and is often championed as a great option. Reality is it's pretty grim. Don't know if I'd recommend it to other countries to be honest. Be careful what you wish for!
I had cancer five years ago, spending the better part of six months receiving inpatient treatment, during which I couldn’t work. I had recently moved jobs beforehand too—I have literally no idea what I would have done under an American-style system.
It’s bursting at the seams (through no fault of its own), and yet still we never bankrupt people with life threatening illnesses, we don’t bill people for ambulances, we don’t force seriously ill people and their families to do battle with blood-sucking insurance companies over byzantine coverage terms.
It’s the last damned thing this nation has actually feels like it exists for the common good of the people. I would recommend it to other countries—wholeheartedly.
Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers
#417Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why would you want it nation wide? Even if you “support it”, I’d much rather watch the implications from the various experiments across states. Then we can select the best option. Personally, I’d like to see some states ban healthcare outright. Others have full coverage and everything in between. Then wait 10 years and we can see the results. I strongly suspect there would be states willing to do this.
Exactly. US salaries for healthcare are the best on the planet, period. The comparison (and to be fair, this is a very high level) paints an extremely clear picture: United States $313,000 Germany $163,000 United Kingdom $138,000 France $108,000 Per: https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-with-highest-p... So yes, I absolutely want to see how many physicians stick around if you tell them "your salary will now…
Why would they bother to leave? Physician salaries might still very well be highest in the world.
Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers
#418Earlier quoted context omitted.
This bill doesn't ban private insurance, it does however have this rule: "Private insurance that duplicates benefits offered under New York Health could not be offered to New York residents." So in other words, private insurances can only be offered if they provide benefits that surpass whatever the public option has. I imagine that private insurances will logically offer more benefits regardless, otherwise why would…
that will mean, though, that it will be impossible to get insurance to actually cover the things that the public system "covers" if you wait 35,600 years for your turn
Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers
#419Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers
#420Earlier quoted context omitted.
You really think people are going to flee NYC and the large cities in CA over this?
Anecdata but I personally know more than a few people who moved to Nevada to avoid California taxes, so yes.