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Ask HN: Why does nobody support h.265/HEVC anymore?

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Re: Ask HN: Why does nobody support h.265/HEVC anymore?

#111

Post by ummonk »

MobiusHorizons wrote: post #101
Razengan wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> video codecs are the exemplary "we'll patent math and there's nothing you can do about it" scam, since that's literally all a video codec is Most software is literally all math.

IMO the real issues caused by patent encumbered formats is that what is patented is not the software itself, but the format. So instead of patenting a specific implementation of an encoder or a decoder, what is patented here is the relationship between the bits on disk and the pixels on the screen. I think that's what the quoted text is trying to get at.

Formats aren’t patentable as such. The issue is that there is really only ever one procedure for decoding a complex format, and many of the steps / building blocks that go into that procedure might be patented by various entities.

Re: Ask HN: Why does nobody support h.265/HEVC anymore?

#112

Post by pornel »

Another thing to consider is that whenever a format works in "all" browsers (for some small values of "all" that devs care to test in), it becomes a de-facto part of the Web platform, and browsers end up having to support it forever.

This makes browser vendors very cautious about adding anything, because even if it's easy now, it's may haunt them later. Maybe they could use HW accell on current-gen GPUs, but what if the next-gen GPUs move to a newer codec and drop H.265? Browsers will still be expected to play existing web content encoded in the old codec, but now with a patent liability and no hardware to subsidize it.

Re: Ask HN: Why does nobody support h.265/HEVC anymore?

#113

Post by nabakin »

dopa42365 wrote: post #14

New Edge supports it, if you have the h265 extension from the microsoft store (cmd "start ms-windows-store://pdp/?ProductId=9n4wgh0z6vhq"). It's also the only (?) browser that supports AC-3 audio. Thanks for nothing, Dolby. There's barely any content though (possibly premium VODs on Netflix etc). Bilibili (kinda like Chinese youtube) offers HEVC (and AV1) playback, if your browser supports it. Example: https://www.bi…

> In general it's kind of a moot point by now, just go with AV1.

Safari doesn't support AV1 though. I'll stick with AVC until it does

Re: Ask HN: Why does nobody support h.265/HEVC anymore?

#114

Post by ummonk »

ZYinMD wrote: post #83

I'm under the impression that VP9 is in the same generation with H265 (in terms of video size and encoding/decoding performance) but VP9 is free and open, so as a consumer, I'll happily accept if everybody just uses VP9.

It claims to be from the same generation but realistically it’s half a generation behind.

Re: Ask HN: Why does nobody support h.265/HEVC anymore?

#115

Post by nabakin »

karmakaze wrote: post #89

Another question is why don't browsers support MKV container format? From an arbitrary search "The Matroska project is supported by a non-profit organization and is a fork of the Multimedia Container Format. It was first announced to the public at the end of 2002 and is a completely royalty-free open standard that's free for both private and commercial use."

I guess because adding full support would be a pain and the average consumer doesn't use it anyway

Re: Ask HN: Why does nobody support h.265/HEVC anymore?

#116

Post by HPsquared »

akersten wrote: post #40

Because the US endorses the concept of "essential patents," meaning you need to pay a licensing fee to be lawfully allowed to perform the math that transforms data into A/V content. Never to mention the two blatant issues with this, being: 1) video codecs are the exemplary "we'll patent math and there's nothing you can do about it" scam, since that's literally all a video codec is 2) a process being "essential" to a…

It's not just math. It's a process that can be described in mathematical language.

Re: Ask HN: Why does nobody support h.265/HEVC anymore?

#117

Post by nabakin »

silicon2401 wrote: post #24

Can someone help me understand why my windows 10 laptop with the latest VLC can't run x265 video files, but my windows 10 desktop with the latest VLC can? My desktop definitely runs circles around my laptop, but I'm not very well versed on video tech, so I haven't been able to figure out what the issue is on my laptop.

That's strange. I think VLC is able to play HEVC even if you don't have a hardware decoder. You've tried reinstalling and deleting the VLC appdata folder?

Re: Ask HN: Why does nobody support h.265/HEVC anymore?

#118

Post by em3rgent0rdr »

akersten wrote: post #43
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, is a video codec really just "math"? There's a binary payload description and algorithms involved for applying said math as well. I'm no expert in the field, so I'm actually asking in good faith here...

Everything you can instruct a computer to do is just math, yes. "Instructions on how to use the math" is, unsurprisingly, also more math. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambda_calculus

Everything is math.

Re: Ask HN: Why does nobody support h.265/HEVC anymore?

#119

Post by yarg »

nceqs3 wrote: post #63
akersten wrote: post #40

Because the US endorses the concept of "essential patents," meaning you need to pay a licensing fee to be lawfully allowed to perform the math that transforms data into A/V content. Never to mention the two blatant issues with this, being: 1) video codecs are the exemplary "we'll patent math and there's nothing you can do about it" scam, since that's literally all a video codec is 2) a process being "essential" to a…

Every country in the world "endorses" the concept of "essential" patents. It's called a patent.

No.

A patent covers a way of doing things.

An essential patent covers the way of doing things.

Essential patents in general fail the obviousness test; they cover the solution that most experts in the field would reach in solving the given problem.

Re: Ask HN: Why does nobody support h.265/HEVC anymore?

#120

Post by astrange »

karmakaze wrote: post #89

Another question is why don't browsers support MKV container format? From an arbitrary search "The Matroska project is supported by a non-profit organization and is a fork of the Multimedia Container Format. It was first announced to the public at the end of 2002 and is a completely royalty-free open standard that's free for both private and commercial use."

They do; WebM is MKV.

General MKV support is approximately impossible because the subtitle format is extremely complicated and not specified. libass only implements it by being bug-compatible to an old piece of Windows software.

Also, MKV isn't a great file format; the way it does timestamps is all wrong for instance. It stores them as decimals when they're naturally rational fractions, so it's a strange choice for an archival format since it literally cannot be accurate.

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