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NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

nysenate.gov

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Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#211

Post by notch656a »

Krasnol wrote: post #197
notch656a wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think funding the elderly is a lofty goal, but I don't see a good intellectual argument for FORCING our children to pay for our healthcare. You shouldn't view your child (nor your neighbor's child) as your own personal piggy-bank to extract from when you get ill. IMO our goal should be to hand down resources from parent to child, not the opposite direction. If I made this story a bit more personal and wrote ("I am…

I don't understand your argument. You are helping others & others help you. What's the problem? > If I made this story a bit more personal and wrote ("I am too ill to work anymore, so I drove to my son's house and took $200 off his counter to buy my medication) HN would be reacting with outrage. How about making the story more fitting the reality here: You drive to your sons house and ask him to help you with your he…

>You drive to your sons house and ask him to help you with your health bill and he helps you because...why wouldn't he?

Asking is fine. Telling them they must is not. If the mechanism for payment from the youth to the elderly is voluntary I have no problem with it.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#212

Post by Certhas »

mostertoaster wrote: post #160

Crazy healthcare costs are the result of government intervention back in the 30s, and I’m doubtful they will actually be able to lower overall costs. Single payer has the advantage of being able to negotiate the costs for a much larger volume, but my guess it won’t be enough to cover the cost of bureaucrats to administer it. Still I’m all for them trying it, if it fails miserably and the “free” healthcare leads to ne…

The US pays vastly more to administer it's health care than any other OECD country. Your assertion that the cost of government bureaucracy should exceed the cost of private markets at this task is emphatically not backed by data.

A good place to check your assumptions on these kind of basic things is the OECD data. Healthcare is here:

USA 1.4% of GDP on governance of healthcare Germany 0.5% (competing public insurance schemes) UK 0.2% (single payer)

US style healthcare is an ideologically driven luxury.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#213

Post by dwallin »

revnode wrote: post #184
dwallin wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't just assume tax increases directly lead to increased 1:1 consumer prices, that's not how supply and demand works.

Where did I assume that?

- A substantial part of your rent is property taxes.

Without detailed analysis there's no way to know if this is true, or how true it is. It is entirely possible for an increase in taxes to lead to no increase in end prices or even a drop in rent prices. It's a complex system.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#214

Post by rtlfe »

oh_sigh wrote: post #169
criddell wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a Canadian living and working in the US and I’d take the Canadian system any day of the week. I think it’s crazy that your access to healthcare is dependent on your employment.

Are you making that decision because the quality of care you've received is better in the Canadian system than the American system, or because you disagree with how the American system is structured?

> Are you making that decision because the quality of care you've received is better in the Canadian system than the American system

That would depend completely on their job in the US. If they're a line cook, care was better in Canada. If they're a software engineer, it's better in the US.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#215

Post by azinman2 »

jonathankoren wrote: post #185
revnode wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You paid much more than that. A substantial part of your rent is property taxes. I also doubt you included sales taxes in that number. Then there's more esoteric stuff like tariffs, etc

The renter is not paying the property taxes. The landlord is. This feels like a slight of hand that leads to double counting.

And what do you think rent price includes?

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#216

Post by revnode »

jonathankoren wrote: post #185
revnode wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You paid much more than that. A substantial part of your rent is property taxes. I also doubt you included sales taxes in that number. Then there's more esoteric stuff like tariffs, etc

The renter is not paying the property taxes. The landlord is. This feels like a slight of hand that leads to double counting.

That's not how things work. When you file your taxes, your rental properties will be treated as a business and the taxes paid there are a business expense. They are deducted from any rental income before the income is counted for the landlord. It is essentially as if the renter is paying the government directly.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#217

Post by marricks »

codefreeordie wrote: post #131
marricks wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who gets "good" care here? Senators and millionaires definitely do. But, most people don't get good care, many people are missing essential care (dental), and everyone has to wait. Often months. We in the US pay more per capita for worse care than most other developed nations (Canada/UK/Nordic countries). Name your country where the care is worse than the US please and let us know how much they pay for it per capita…

Actually, the median American has access to exceptional care. What is actually the case is that care available to the bottom quartile of Americans is below the care received on average in a top-tier universal care nation, and the US spends an absolute fortune delivering this quartile with substandard care. We also spend a bit more than average providing exceptional care to everyone else, except that we also spend a t…

Why do Americans always have to play a zero sum game with human lives.

If a quarter of our country has the worst healthcare in the developed world that is unacceptable.

Answers like this are just begging us to give up our humanity.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#218

Post by abfan1127 »

jonathankoren wrote: post #185
revnode wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You paid much more than that. A substantial part of your rent is property taxes. I also doubt you included sales taxes in that number. Then there's more esoteric stuff like tariffs, etc

The renter is not paying the property taxes. The landlord is. This feels like a slight of hand that leads to double counting.

I'm entirely sure that landlord is not taking a loss on those property taxes. It is passed onto the renter.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#219

Post by upbeat_general »

tsol wrote: post #204
jjoonathan wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nooo! Public option is not a half measure, it's a ~zero measure. Single payer >>> public option. Public option is really easy to kill, just kneecap it any of a hundred ways, call it a failure, and then sell killing it as a tax break. It has the staying power of a cobweb on a car wheel. Failure is inevitable and it won't just be dead, it'll be held up for decades as proof that our government is uniquely incapable of d…

How/why is failure inevitable? >Contrast to single payer, which is hard to kill because people are yes paying a tax but also seeing a benefit and seeing a benefit that they didn't have before Isn't that true for a public option as well?

No because it is a public option. Thus not everyone uses it.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#220

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

listless wrote: post #164
countvonbalzac wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rent is not tax, what an absurd comment.

I’m a landlord and yes it is. My taxes doubled last year because of the stupid housing bubble and so we had to raise rent as well. Gotta make a profit here for this investment to be worthwhile.

Maybe if people didn't buy property they don't live in as an investment then things like the stupid housing bubble might not happen in the first place.

Personally I think owning a residence you don't actually live in should just straight up be illegal, but I'm admittedly pretty radical about parts of the system that seem to exist solely to make the rich richer.

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