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Ask HN: Why does nobody support h.265/HEVC anymore?

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Re: Ask HN: Why does nobody support h.265/HEVC anymore?

#31

Post by jasode »

tomputer wrote: post #21
theandrewbailey wrote: post #3

H.265 requires getting a license from at least 2 patent pools[0], and who knows how many other patents are out there waiting to get sued over. If you want a new cross platform video codec, check out AV1.[1] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Video_Coding#P... [1] https://aomedia.org/av1/

FFmpeg and VLC seem to use (lib)x265 for H.265 content. Is a license also required if the x265 codec is used? Or does that depend on whether the software is for commercial use?

>FFmpeg and VLC seem to use (lib)x265 for H.265 content.

copypaste of previous comment:

The FFmpeg project does not distribute binaries with unlicensed or illegal code. E.g. if you want ffmpeg to use libdvdcss for decrypting DVDs or use libfdk-aac to encode aac/m4a without paying license royalties to Fraunhofer, the end user has to download those components and build a custom ffmpeg binary on their own. No legitimate website will host ffmpeg built with the "illegal/unlicensed" libraries. E.g. When the popular Zeranoe website hosted ffmpeg executables for download, it was only built with the free GNU components and was missing x265.

The VLC project says they can include libdvdcss because they are a French company instead of American. E.g. The USA-based Microsoft removes DVD playback from Windows 8 but France-based VLC does not: https://www.zdnet.com/article/if-vlc-can-ship-a-free-dvd-pla...

Re: Ask HN: Why does nobody support h.265/HEVC anymore?

#32

Post by projektfu »

teekert wrote: post #13

This is also behind heic? Right? Man what a pain, I love hdr and Live Photos but anywhere outside the Apple ecosystem it is pain. I really wouldn’t mind paying some dollars for some codecs to just be able to see my pics in Windows, Linux, Nextcloud etc.

Windows 11 appears to read HEIC in the photos app.

Re: Ask HN: Why does nobody support h.265/HEVC anymore?

#33

Post by aaa_aaa »

bush-bby wrote: post #16
rasz wrote: post #10

Because Fuck Patents.

Stupid question but… why?

I am not the OP, but here is my take. In practical sense, because they do more harm than good. In logical sense, IMO, IP (patents, copy rights etc.) is not `property`, so it cannot be owned. Thus it can be copied indefinitely and used once it is exposed. World would be a better place without this nonsense.

Re: Ask HN: Why does nobody support h.265/HEVC anymore?

#34

Post by floatboth »

teekert wrote: post #13

This is also behind heic? Right? Man what a pain, I love hdr and Live Photos but anywhere outside the Apple ecosystem it is pain. I really wouldn’t mind paying some dollars for some codecs to just be able to see my pics in Windows, Linux, Nextcloud etc.

> Windows

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/heif-image-extensions/9pmm... + https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/hevc-video-extensions/9nmz...

> Linux

https://github.com/strukturag/libheif (includes gdk-pixbuf loader and nautilus thumbnailer)

Re: Ask HN: Why does nobody support h.265/HEVC anymore?

#35

Post by paulmd »

silicon2401 wrote: post #24

Can someone help me understand why my windows 10 laptop with the latest VLC can't run x265 video files, but my windows 10 desktop with the latest VLC can? My desktop definitely runs circles around my laptop, but I'm not very well versed on video tech, so I haven't been able to figure out what the issue is on my laptop.

FYI (not just you but generally): one tool that is very useful in this situation is called "DXVA Checker", it checks the DirectX video acceleration modules that are available for the current hardware/driver and then you can compare that against the file ("codec information" in VLC) and see what's going on.

I would hazard a guess that your laptop probably doesn't have a hardware H265, or that the H265 file you're using doesn't match up to the decoder module (eg 8 vs 10 bit, or color space, etc). It is then falling back to software-decode or hybrid mode, and then it doesn't have enough oomph to do the file.

https://bluesky-soft.com/en/DXVAChecker.html

Re: Ask HN: Why does nobody support h.265/HEVC anymore?

#36

Post by Sunspark »

dopa42365 wrote: post #14

New Edge supports it, if you have the h265 extension from the microsoft store (cmd "start ms-windows-store://pdp/?ProductId=9n4wgh0z6vhq"). It's also the only (?) browser that supports AC-3 audio. Thanks for nothing, Dolby. There's barely any content though (possibly premium VODs on Netflix etc). Bilibili (kinda like Chinese youtube) offers HEVC (and AV1) playback, if your browser supports it. Example: https://www.bi…

It's odd that the browser supports AC-3 but the MS video player does not unless you pay for the codec, while all the other video players include it.

Going with AV1 is not an option for the vast majority of people as it requires hardware support. If you try using AV1 on a computer that didn't come with a hardware decoder for it, your machine will crawl.

I force h264 in YouTube for this reason instead of using VP9.

Re: Ask HN: Why does nobody support h.265/HEVC anymore?

#37

Post by znpy »

msbarnett wrote: post #9
theandrewbailey wrote: post #3

H.265 requires getting a license from at least 2 patent pools[0], and who knows how many other patents are out there waiting to get sued over. If you want a new cross platform video codec, check out AV1.[1] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Video_Coding#P... [1] https://aomedia.org/av1/

The licenses have already been paid for the hardware implementation, that doesn't explain, eg, Chrome's refusal to leverage hardware decoding (and stop burning so much power on laptops).

The correct way to see this is probably that licenses have already been patented for the existing implementations, and dropping support for future ones means money saving.

Re: Ask HN: Why does nobody support h.265/HEVC anymore?

#40

Post by akersten »

Because the US endorses the concept of "essential patents," meaning you need to pay a licensing fee to be lawfully allowed to perform the math that transforms data into A/V content.

Never to mention the two blatant issues with this, being:

1) video codecs are the exemplary "we'll patent math and there's nothing you can do about it" scam, since that's literally all a video codec is

2) a process being "essential" to a particular outcome (i.e. no other way to do it) was the main motivation mathematics was explicitly excluded from patentability in the first place, so the idea of "essential patents" just underlines the absurdity of the entire system

Anyways, yearly reminder that software patents are a blight to innovation and a scourge on our industry, and no you won't change my mind.

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