Turning Wordpress Into a Framework With MTV
blog.apps.chicagotribune.com
Turning Wordpress Into a Framework With MTV
1–10 of 16 posts
Re: Turning Wordpress Into a Framework With MTV
#2Why in heavens name would you want to change wordpress like this? If it doesn't live up to your standards, just use Ruby+Rails or Python+Django. (Or even PHP+some framework)
Re: Turning Wordpress Into a Framework With MTV
#3I think this fits some use-cases very nicely, where there's not enough incentive to use a proper framework like Django, also not enough incentive to mix a framework and WordPress in a CMS+app setup (e.g. http://multimedia.journalism.berkeley.edu/blog/2010/nov/24/a...), but on the other hand where doing everything as plain WP plugins would be a grueling experience. Yes, I can see myself actually enjoying this.
Of course, it'd be better if WordPress, the kick-ass blogging platform that it is, would just be a framework or be built on one, so the Tribune wouldn't have had to do this, but when stuff like WordPress and Drupal got started, (1) nobody had ever heard of MVC in PHP and (2) the OO was crap. So it's hard to blame Matt.
Re: Turning Wordpress Into a Framework With MTV
#4Why in heavens name would you want to change wordpress like this? If it doesn't live up to your standards, just use Ruby+Rails or Python+Django. (Or even PHP+some framework)
Because WordPress is great, but it's a pain to do extensive development with.
Replicating WordPress functionality in Rails or Django would be an enormous job. Making WordPress more like Django was much less work.
Re: Turning Wordpress Into a Framework With MTV
#5Why in heavens name would you want to change wordpress like this? If it doesn't live up to your standards, just use Ruby+Rails or Python+Django. (Or even PHP+some framework)
Because WordPress is great, but it's a pain to do extensive development with. Replicating WordPress functionality in Rails or Django would be an enormous job. Making WordPress more like Django was much less work.
Gotta say that I don't get it either. They've basically just added yet-another-HTML-templating system into the mix. Question not answered: "For the love of all that is holy, why?"
PHP is an HTML templating system. Tacking on yet another one strikes me as more than a little pointless.
Re: Turning Wordpress Into a Framework With MTV
#6Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because WordPress is great, but it's a pain to do extensive development with. Replicating WordPress functionality in Rails or Django would be an enormous job. Making WordPress more like Django was much less work.
Gotta say that I don't get it either. They've basically just added yet-another-HTML-templating system into the mix. Question not answered: "For the love of all that is holy, why?" PHP is an HTML templating system. Tacking on yet another one strikes me as more than a little pointless.
"All the HTML is in one place and contains as little code as possible.
One place for code that interacts with data.
One place for code that processes requests and responses.
One place for all the URL regexes.
And all these places are predictable."
Re: Turning Wordpress Into a Framework With MTV
#7Why in heavens name would you want to change wordpress like this? If it doesn't live up to your standards, just use Ruby+Rails or Python+Django. (Or even PHP+some framework)
Wordpress does publishing right. The admin is easy and intuitive for writers, photographers, editors and the news production. Ruby on Rails and Django have admins best saved for programmers.
I suspect the time and effort to create a user-friendly admin and publishing system for either framework was higher than just using Wordpress, which already just works and people are familiar with. This makes sense.
But, Wordpress can be a pain for programming teams with front end and back end developers. The code is often embedded, which means both a designer and programmer often have to touch the same file at the same time. The MVC model fixes this problem allowing teams to work simultaneously with designers designing and coders coding, while also simultaneously making the coding easier by creating a model built around standard framework structure.
Wordpress wins for writers. MVC wins for programmers and designers. MTV wins for both.
Re: Turning Wordpress Into a Framework With MTV
#8Earlier quoted context omitted.
Gotta say that I don't get it either. They've basically just added yet-another-HTML-templating system into the mix. Question not answered: "For the love of all that is holy, why?" PHP is an HTML templating system. Tacking on yet another one strikes me as more than a little pointless.
"All the HTML is in one place and contains as little code as possible. One place for code that interacts with data. One place for code that processes requests and responses. One place for all the URL regexes. And all these places are predictable."
So, when you have a problem with the system, then to find the bug you have to look in three or four places instead of one.
Re: Turning Wordpress Into a Framework With MTV
#9Why in heavens name would you want to change wordpress like this? If it doesn't live up to your standards, just use Ruby+Rails or Python+Django. (Or even PHP+some framework)
Wordpress does publishing right. The admin is easy and intuitive for writers, photographers, editors and the news production. Ruby on Rails and Django have admins best saved for programmers. I suspect the time and effort to create a user-friendly admin and publishing system for either framework was higher than just using Wordpress, which already just works and people are familiar with. This makes sense. But, Wordpres…
Can't agree more, although I haven't personally tested the MTV plugin its looking super promising for large WordPress sites.
However in the long run it might make more sense putting time into building a revamped admin for Django instead — using WP as the model.
Re: Turning Wordpress Into a Framework With MTV
#10Why in heavens name would you want to change wordpress like this? If it doesn't live up to your standards, just use Ruby+Rails or Python+Django. (Or even PHP+some framework)
Wordpress does publishing right. The admin is easy and intuitive for writers, photographers, editors and the news production. Ruby on Rails and Django have admins best saved for programmers. I suspect the time and effort to create a user-friendly admin and publishing system for either framework was higher than just using Wordpress, which already just works and people are familiar with. This makes sense. But, Wordpres…
Noble and geeky effort, but I'm skeptical whether I'll use it (disclaimer: I did try smarty implementations before and had similar experiences.)
Think the dissenters' consensus is that this goes against grain of what's been organic WP development (not that it's all perfect, but, there is a massive contributing base.) This thing might become obsolete nightly or I could be entirely wrong and it'll get adapted whenever WP guys wrangle major internal design changes at some point.
I'll skip over all that and just address specifics that make me feel uneasy.
As they stated in their writeup, one problem is that function exports have to be hard-coded. Not to say they won't fix this (switch it to smarty3-like model or control what gets installed), but that means they've interfered with the admin process of installing plugins that need minor template alterations or otherwise meet unspecified limits; ex: wp-paginate. That means that the core MTV team is still involved with the end user, and the template designer.
Secondly, sure, WP templating hasn't changed all that much lately - but historically it has changed drastically between major releases. This MTV implementation forces Trib. guys to spend time keeping up with updates and changes that will come out of nowhere. I'm not sure if MTV breaks WP's template hierarchy, or its template inheritance features, but those I rely heavily on.