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Ask HN: APC adding monthly fees / remotely defeaturing existing UPS's?

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Re: Ask HN: APC adding monthly fees / remotely defeaturing existing UPS's?

#21

Post by [deleted] »

paulgb wrote: post #17
0des wrote: post #13

Subscription things are something I wish would have died in the media wars of cable TV. Also, on a more tangential note, allow me to gripe briefly: Blue Apron, and other with this model, consider how much garbage you are creating for the minimal value of your schemes.

> Blue Apron, and other with this model, consider how much garbage you are creating for the minimal value of your schemes. This is getting a bit tangential, but I've been wondering about whether the environmental footprint of grocery delivery really is lower or higher than going in-person to pick it up. Grocery stores have a huge, air-conditioned square footage just so that I can walk around and pick stuff out. Lots…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: APC adding monthly fees / remotely defeaturing existing UPS's?

#22

Post by 0des »

jdlshore wrote: post #20
paulgb wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Blue Apron, and other with this model, consider how much garbage you are creating for the minimal value of your schemes. This is getting a bit tangential, but I've been wondering about whether the environmental footprint of grocery delivery really is lower or higher than going in-person to pick it up. Grocery stores have a huge, air-conditioned square footage just so that I can walk around and pick stuff out. Lots…

I read about a study that concluded meal delivery kits resulted in less CO2 emissions, mostly because because store-bought food required people to buy larger quantities, so there was more food waste. I don't remember the details, but remember being somewhat skeptical about the way the study was conducted. The point being that there's lots of factors and packaging isn't necessarily the biggest one.

I hate to get all "That's just what they want you to believe maaaan!" but I'm going to wear my tinfoil hat on this matter while we both look up who may have funded that study.

Re: Ask HN: APC adding monthly fees / remotely defeaturing existing UPS's?

#23

Post by dmitrygr »

gruez wrote: post #6
dmitrygr wrote: post #5

And people ask me why I want ability to disable all automatic firmware updates (so i can vet them against people's comments when they roll out to others) and prefer to buy non-internet-connected things.

So rather than being upset a few years later when your cloud functionality isn't working you... don't use it in the first place? I guess that's a viable choice if you weren't planning to use the cloud features to begin with, but the OP seems to be using the cloud features, and is upset that he's losing access to them.

Yes. If I don’t control it, I cannot rely on it. No need to condition myself otherwise.

Re: Ask HN: APC adding monthly fees / remotely defeaturing existing UPS's?

#24

Post by neilv »

This is another reason for me not to connect a UPS to data.

I started using data-connectable UPSes at home a couple decades ago. When I got my first such UPS, I happened to be in an IRC community of systems people who were frequently targeted by script kiddies. Usually they would just knock people or servers off the net, but sometimes they'd hack in, and we got a little practice at countermeasures. With this awareness in mind, I decided that having a UPS-triggered smooth server shutdown, in event of rare extended power outage, wasn't worth even the tiny risk of someone messing with the UPS remotely, and accidentally causing a fire.

I currently have two rackmount Cyberpower UPSes at home, still not data-connected. And it turns out, in the last couple decades, I've never needed the data connection.

Incidentally, this IoT move by APC sounds off-putting. I've long favored APC, and only switched to Cyberpower at home for the short-depth form factors. APC now has a neat and pricey Lithium battery short-depth line, but if Cyberpower can beat APC on customer goodwill (including IoT nonsense), they'll cement me and presumably others as loyal customers.

Re: Ask HN: APC adding monthly fees / remotely defeaturing existing UPS's?

#26

Post by jdlshore »

0des wrote: post #22
jdlshore wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read about a study that concluded meal delivery kits resulted in less CO2 emissions, mostly because because store-bought food required people to buy larger quantities, so there was more food waste. I don't remember the details, but remember being somewhat skeptical about the way the study was conducted. The point being that there's lots of factors and packaging isn't necessarily the biggest one.

I hate to get all "That's just what they want you to believe maaaan!" but I'm going to wear my tinfoil hat on this matter while we both look up who may have funded that study.

The same thought crossed my mind. :-)

Re: Ask HN: APC adding monthly fees / remotely defeaturing existing UPS's?

#27

Post by drewzero1 »

paulgb wrote: post #17
0des wrote: post #13

Subscription things are something I wish would have died in the media wars of cable TV. Also, on a more tangential note, allow me to gripe briefly: Blue Apron, and other with this model, consider how much garbage you are creating for the minimal value of your schemes.

> Blue Apron, and other with this model, consider how much garbage you are creating for the minimal value of your schemes. This is getting a bit tangential, but I've been wondering about whether the environmental footprint of grocery delivery really is lower or higher than going in-person to pick it up. Grocery stores have a huge, air-conditioned square footage just so that I can walk around and pick stuff out. Lots…

At the same time, the carbon footprint of the grocery store's whole system is amortized over everyone who gets their food there. It's not just so one person can walk around, but to serve a large percentage of local residents over the course of each week. (To be fair, a lot of them drive their own cars, so that needs to be taken into account as well.) The food comes in on densely-packed semi trucks, on reusable pallets stacked with largely recyclable or reusable distribution packaging, which is sent back to the distribution center to be used again on the next delivery. There's an economy of scale with some long-developed efficiency tactics that, at least in my area, delivery services just can't touch.

It is certainly true that grocery stores throw out food that goes bad before it sells. What do services like Blue Apron (or their suppliers) do with perishables that aren't up to par?

Re: Ask HN: APC adding monthly fees / remotely defeaturing existing UPS's?

#28

Post by Froedlich »

hedora wrote: post #10
1-6 wrote: post #4

That’s why going to an open-source BMC is important.

Do you know of any open source-compatible uninterruptible power supplies? I specifically chose this model because APC has (had?) a reputation for being bulletproof. (My last UPS was also closed source. It liked to beep at odd hours, and sporadically turned itself off. At least the APC doesn't do that, I guess.) Also, at the end of the day, it's just an overpriced sealed car battery. I wasn't looking for a hobby proje…

Eric S. Raymond was working on one, with the help of some EE friends, but his blog went 404 some time ago. You might find some mention of it on archive.org, and perhaps contact information for one of the other developers.
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