Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

We Can All Become Job Creators

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 101 posts

Re: We Can All Become Job Creators

#31

Post by 9999 »

hugh3 wrote: post #3

We need to stop talking about "job creation" and start talking about "wealth creation". It's easy to create jobs -- e.g. I can go round breaking windows with rocks and create jobs for glaziers. But creating jobs that create wealth -- that is, to create an opportunity for someone else to join their labour with my capital in order to build something that someone wishes to pay for, thus enriching all three of us... well…

Hold your horses. Tell us more about this rock throwing, window breaking, glass making job creation plan of yours. This has been the most viable job creation plan I've heard of to date.

Re: We Can All Become Job Creators

#32

Post by kennyma »

pitdesi wrote: post #28
hugh3 wrote: post #3

We need to stop talking about "job creation" and start talking about "wealth creation". It's easy to create jobs -- e.g. I can go round breaking windows with rocks and create jobs for glaziers. But creating jobs that create wealth -- that is, to create an opportunity for someone else to join their labour with my capital in order to build something that someone wishes to pay for, thus enriching all three of us... well…

Easier access to credit is a huge detriment to small businesses, in ways that we (startup-folks) don't think about... One example - the typical small business restaurant. It is a VERY different businesses than the startups that we create. You can't create a restaurant without any money, for example... You can bootstrap an online business by not paying yourself, but when you have to pay for a building and kitchen etc,…

Good point about spending $4 at a small business instead. That will help keep existing businesses alive but it will not solve the capital problem to start a small business.

Re: We Can All Become Job Creators

#33

Post by ebiester »

randomdata wrote: post #17
hugh3 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What proportion of jobs in the United States are in programming or things analogous to programming? What proportion of jobs in the United States are in agriculture, manufacturing, or things analogous to agriculture and manufacturing? I think you may be suffering from short-sightedness, and assuming that the whole world looks a lot more like your corner of it than it does.

It is not about absolute values, it is about trends. There's no question the tech sector is small, relatively speaking, but agriculture and manufacturing jobs are shrinking while technology-based jobs are growing. For every job lost in agriculture and manufacturing, there is a new job in the tech industry. However, unless you are highly skilled, nobody will be interested in you. That is the problem. Farmers desperate…

So, then, how do we increase the supply of "great people?"

I argue that there is a percentage in the agriculture, call center, and manufacturing industry, if given the six years of math and programming, could be top programmers. These same people would be motivated to do so, but have families to feed and mortgages to pay.

We have potential supply. We have demand. How do we get from A to B?

Re: We Can All Become Job Creators

#34

Post by jroseattle »

jen123 wrote: post #14

I've seen some small businesses go under because they haven't been paid on time. They borrow capital to pay their employees until their customer gets around to paying them...This especially occurs if the customer is big and the business that is servicing them is small.

Ditto. Saw this happen with a small local company that was given prime placement in WalMart -- and had to up their production by about 10000%. It wiped them out.

Re: We Can All Become Job Creators

#35

Post by wisty »

pitdesi wrote: post #28
hugh3 wrote: post #3

We need to stop talking about "job creation" and start talking about "wealth creation". It's easy to create jobs -- e.g. I can go round breaking windows with rocks and create jobs for glaziers. But creating jobs that create wealth -- that is, to create an opportunity for someone else to join their labour with my capital in order to build something that someone wishes to pay for, thus enriching all three of us... well…

Easier access to credit is a huge detriment to small businesses, in ways that we (startup-folks) don't think about... One example - the typical small business restaurant. It is a VERY different businesses than the startups that we create. You can't create a restaurant without any money, for example... You can bootstrap an online business by not paying yourself, but when you have to pay for a building and kitchen etc,…

Restaurants can be bootstrapped. A mobile vending unit costs ~20k. Add an extra 10k of permits, and basic inventory, and you could sell coffee somewhere near a transport hub. From there, you could add a few food items, build up savings, then lease a small restaurant.

The problem is, regulators can be very unfriendly to mobile vendors.

Re: We Can All Become Job Creators

#36

Post by Goladus »

wisty wrote: post #35
pitdesi wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easier access to credit is a huge detriment to small businesses, in ways that we (startup-folks) don't think about... One example - the typical small business restaurant. It is a VERY different businesses than the startups that we create. You can't create a restaurant without any money, for example... You can bootstrap an online business by not paying yourself, but when you have to pay for a building and kitchen etc,…

Restaurants can be bootstrapped. A mobile vending unit costs ~20k. Add an extra 10k of permits, and basic inventory, and you could sell coffee somewhere near a transport hub. From there, you could add a few food items, build up savings, then lease a small restaurant. The problem is, regulators can be very unfriendly to mobile vendors.

Restaurants can be bootstrapped for some limited values of "restaurant" and "bootstrap." You can also steer a car with your feet, but hands are a lot more effective.

Re: We Can All Become Job Creators

#37

Post by rhizome »

jroseattle wrote: post #34
jen123 wrote: post #14

I've seen some small businesses go under because they haven't been paid on time. They borrow capital to pay their employees until their customer gets around to paying them...This especially occurs if the customer is big and the business that is servicing them is small.

Ditto. Saw this happen with a small local company that was given prime placement in WalMart -- and had to up their production by about 10000%. It wiped them out.

Google "monopsony."

Re: We Can All Become Job Creators

#38

Post by jallmann »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems like a way to tug at people's heartstrings for free capital. If interest goes back to the original investors (donors), surely Starbucks is not going to track down everyone who contributed a dollar for their $1.05 back.

Someone is going to profit handsomely from this, unless all the proceeds are reinvested into other loans.

Re: We Can All Become Job Creators

#39

Post by hugh3 »

9999 wrote: post #31
hugh3 wrote: post #3

We need to stop talking about "job creation" and start talking about "wealth creation". It's easy to create jobs -- e.g. I can go round breaking windows with rocks and create jobs for glaziers. But creating jobs that create wealth -- that is, to create an opportunity for someone else to join their labour with my capital in order to build something that someone wishes to pay for, thus enriching all three of us... well…

Hold your horses. Tell us more about this rock throwing, window breaking, glass making job creation plan of yours. This has been the most viable job creation plan I've heard of to date.

I'd love to, but unfortunately I live in a glass house.

Re: We Can All Become Job Creators

#40

Post by Goladus »

hugh3 wrote: post #3

We need to stop talking about "job creation" and start talking about "wealth creation". It's easy to create jobs -- e.g. I can go round breaking windows with rocks and create jobs for glaziers. But creating jobs that create wealth -- that is, to create an opportunity for someone else to join their labour with my capital in order to build something that someone wishes to pay for, thus enriching all three of us... well…

> We need to stop talking about "job creation" and start talking about "wealth creation".

It's more than wealth creation, though. People must also be paid fairly for the wealth created. Wealth creation is happening, the problem is that the rewards for it are all being skimmed away and those in the middle are being squeezed-- squeezed out of their homes, out of their cars, and out of their educations.

The housing boom of the last decade resulted in a great deal of wealth creation. That wasn't the problem. The problem is who ultimately winds up owning that wealth and how much it's worth on the market.

It's true you can't just wave your magic jobs wand and "create jobs," it's true that people gloss over the need to create wealth and eventually be profitable. That doesn't mean improving the number and quality of jobs (or work) available isn't an important focus.

Post reply on HN