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Colleges where everyone works and there's no tuition

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Re: Colleges where everyone works and there's no tuition

#31

Sorry to depart from the feel-good narrative, but this kind of student labor is token or symbolic at best. The kinds of jobs that students can perform are not nearly the kind of jobs that a college with a physical plant to maintain, professors to pay, finances to administer, etc. can make a meaningful dent in. (By and large), students are not going to be doing electrical work, maintenance, financial accounting, admin…

It reminds me of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_education_system

This system is only used in German-speaking countries but it works there. The basic is that students are employed by a company and work there half the time. In return the company pays for the studies in the other half.

Re: Colleges where everyone works and there's no tuition

#32
> Both the College of the Ozarks and Berea College rely on a stream of non-tuition funding to pull off the work college model. This includes a mixture of private donations, Pell Grants and sustaining funding from hefty endowments.

> [...] Berea’s $1.6 billion endowment covers around three-quarters of the college’s operating expenses for its approximately 1,600 students. College of the Ozarks has an endowment just shy of half a billion dollars; its endowment-per-student ratio is one of the highest in the country.

> Relying on this type of funding does limit the number of students that can be enrolled each year and can make the schools particularly vulnerable to changes in the economy.

So the students don't really need to work as part of the model. It's more of a "Large endowment and private donations enables colleges to not charge tuition".

But I do think that work experience is important for college students. Even if your work experience isn't directly related to your field of study, just having stood behind a cash register, gives you a lot of maturity when facing the job market after graduation.

Re: Colleges where everyone works and there's no tuition

#33
A college where everybody eats free dinner and lunch (We pay 1/10 of the actual cost of the food), pays no tuition, can take student loans with really low interest rates (the amount they loan is not much and it's not same as student loan in Western countries where you take loans to pay for tuition fees rather here students take loan to buy stuff they need like laptops and such.) is supposed to result in prolific people who are going to help the country so the government takes care of them. However a lot of these student immigrate to other countries to study for masters and PHD and never come back and stay there for life while they were supposed to be going there only to study! Seems like the government is providing people so they can immigrate. How bad this government can be?!!

BTW I'm Iranian and since I feel like everyone here is American I thought maybe sharing a little different point of view could be beneficial. I myself think of immigrating to another country a lot and honestly seems like everything here designed in a way to make us immigrate. From mandatory military service to economic problems and being disconnected from the world (more in a economical sense again where we can't have international transactions, but here I am connected to you informationally(I think I just invented a new word)!)

Re: Colleges where everyone works and there's no tuition

#34

A college where everybody eats free dinner and lunch (We pay 1/10 of the actual cost of the food), pays no tuition, can take student loans with really low interest rates (the amount they loan is not much and it's not same as student loan in Western countries where you take loans to pay for tuition fees rather here students take loan to buy stuff they need like laptops and such.) is supposed to result in prolific peop…

HN has readers from all over the world, notably the UK, Australia, and tons from India

Re: Colleges where everyone works and there's no tuition

#35

Sorry to depart from the feel-good narrative, but this kind of student labor is token or symbolic at best. The kinds of jobs that students can perform are not nearly the kind of jobs that a college with a physical plant to maintain, professors to pay, finances to administer, etc. can make a meaningful dent in. (By and large), students are not going to be doing electrical work, maintenance, financial accounting, admin…

This should be unsurprising since most colleges/universities already have student workers. From places in admin, campus guides, working odd jobs like the cafeteria or library, or many other places. The two schools I've been to limit these workers to 20 hrs/wk (so it is part time and they can be "full time" students). But this is nowhere near enough to pay for tuition. It is really just "beer money" (about $300/wk if you got one of the better jobs). It might be enough to cover rent and food, but not much else.

While we're on the topic, can someone really explain to me what endowments are for? There's many universities that claim hardship but have multi-billion dollar endowments. I mean Harvard (the largest endowment) has over $2m per student. The "business" is clearly profitable without ever accepting a dime from students. I'm just unsure what this money is actually doing.

Re: Colleges where everyone works and there's no tuition

#36

Another is Deep Springs College, about 30 miles from Big Pine, CA. This is a two-year school, in the remote desert. Enrollment is about 30 students, coeducational since 2018. There is no tuition, but students work ~20 hours/week at jobs including cook, irrigator, butcher, groundskeeper, cowboy, "office cowboy", dairy, and feedman. The college was created to both train and accustom technical staff for powerplant engin…

I saw this in tv. It reminded me City Slickers. It looked fun. When I was burning out in a professional school; I would have jumped at the opportunity to do this program. (I'm not denigrating it. I've been a landscaper, dishwasher in highschool who was yelled at in Chinese nightly for not doing jobs other than dishwashing--like washing/polishing his car between rushes, General contractor, auto mechanic, and electrici…

I mean how can you not want to work at a place that has both office cowboy and run-of-the-mill cowboy as job titles

Re: Colleges where everyone works and there's no tuition

#38

Sorry to depart from the feel-good narrative, but this kind of student labor is token or symbolic at best. The kinds of jobs that students can perform are not nearly the kind of jobs that a college with a physical plant to maintain, professors to pay, finances to administer, etc. can make a meaningful dent in. (By and large), students are not going to be doing electrical work, maintenance, financial accounting, admin…

This should be unsurprising since most colleges/universities already have student workers. From places in admin, campus guides, working odd jobs like the cafeteria or library, or many other places. The two schools I've been to limit these workers to 20 hrs/wk (so it is part time and they can be "full time" students). But this is nowhere near enough to pay for tuition. It is really just "beer money" (about $300/wk if…

I see a lot of confusion about college endowments on HN. It's best to think of them not as saving accounts but financial instruments. Annual university budgets make use of the returns off of the endowment, often covering more than half of their expenses. Their long-term plan is to never tap into the principal. In fact, the hope is to increase the principal with new donations to expand the annual returns to fight against inflation and support new initiatives.

Re: Colleges where everyone works and there's no tuition

#39

Sorry to depart from the feel-good narrative, but this kind of student labor is token or symbolic at best. The kinds of jobs that students can perform are not nearly the kind of jobs that a college with a physical plant to maintain, professors to pay, finances to administer, etc. can make a meaningful dent in. (By and large), students are not going to be doing electrical work, maintenance, financial accounting, admin…

This should be unsurprising since most colleges/universities already have student workers. From places in admin, campus guides, working odd jobs like the cafeteria or library, or many other places. The two schools I've been to limit these workers to 20 hrs/wk (so it is part time and they can be "full time" students). But this is nowhere near enough to pay for tuition. It is really just "beer money" (about $300/wk if…

Harvard, or other universities, are not too different from other corporations. Why would they offer to pay for something that their customers themselves would pay for? After all, a Harvard degree is quite valuable, and who's reaping the benefit of it?

They want to make as much money off their endowments (savings) as they can, and spend as little of it as possible on things that they don't need to pay for. Note that while the endowment is huge, actually a large part of it is restricted in what it can be used for, by "generous" donors who put conditions on their money, funnily enough. Turns out that they don't want the money spent on just sending kids to school, they rather want to see their name on art in museums, on professorships, and on department buildings.

Harvard to take an example, has an endowment of $53B, roughly (https://finance.harvard.edu/files/fad/files/fy21_harvard_fin...). Approx. 80% of that has donor restrictions on it and only $9B is useable freely for anything desired.

Last year, Harvard's operating costs were $5B (roughly). To pay for that (roughly):

-- $1B came from student tuition

-- $1B came from funded research grants

-- $2B was released from the endowment

-- $1B in gifts, royalties, licenses, other income

In a sense, $2B spent from such an endowment is not too different from what you would plan for your own retirement. Admittedly, Harvard Management Company (investment arm) earns much better than average though.

It's a choice by these universities, how big they want to be, the ambition of their educational goals, and to some extent, yes their power and influence. They are no different than many corporations.

If you want altruistic behavior and free tuition, well, you want a slightly different system.

Re: Colleges where everyone works and there's no tuition

#40
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw this in tv. It reminded me City Slickers. It looked fun. When I was burning out in a professional school; I would have jumped at the opportunity to do this program. (I'm not denigrating it. I've been a landscaper, dishwasher in highschool who was yelled at in Chinese nightly for not doing jobs other than dishwashing--like washing/polishing his car between rushes, General contractor, auto mechanic, and electrici…

I mean how can you not want to work at a place that has both office cowboy and run-of-the-mill cowboy as job titles

I'd like to know why "stay-at-home cowboy" isn't an option.
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