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Singapore Government Tech Stack

developer.tech.gov.sg

71–80 of 104 posts

Re: Singapore Government Tech Stack

#71
post #66
post #17

Let’s not forget the whole fiasco with Singapore’s TraceTogether app for contact tracing during the pandemic. The actual implementation of it differs significantly from the white paper they open-sourced. The actual app does not anonymize the data and the government has access to everyone’s location and interaction data. Initially, their privacy policy promised the data would only be used for tracking of the spread of…

TraceTogether is being phased out as the end of the pandemic nears. Haven't had to use it for weeks now. As for privacy issue - they ended up stating that they would only use it for serious crimes e.g. they used it in a murder investigation. Seems like a reasonable compromise for better public safety. (I recognize that not everyone will agree on that, but the level of safety and security in Singapore is mind blowing.…

The US is large enough to have had its government break promises like this time and again. That’s why you’ll see a lot of people on here that will object to a design requiring you to trust the owners of your infrastructure.

Signal is the chief example of this kind of design. All they can provide a government is the creation date of someone’s account, and the last time they tried to check for messages. Neither message content nor metadata (who sent messages to whom) is accessible, assuming the app follows the design and the design doesn’t have defects.

Re: Singapore Government Tech Stack

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just over a week ago, Singapore executed by hanging an intellectually disabled Malaysian man (of Indian descent), Nagaenthran K. Dharmalingam. His crime? He was caught trying to import heroin – I think it very likely the traffickers exploited his intellectual disability in order to talk him into becoming a drug mule. In this regard, Singapore is a rather extreme outlier among developed countries – few of which retain…

I am also against the death penalty. But I am for consistency. It does not sound like a clear-cut case of injustice to me, and I am quite sensitive to injustice. Any compassion the state shows is a lie to cover for discretionary enforcement, which is a pernicious type of corruption. It truly sounds like a tragic case. If Mr. Dharmalingam was unable to understand the risks he was taking, then clearly he needed more gu…

> Any compassion the state shows is a lie to cover for discretionary enforcement, which is a pernicious type of corruption

You actually think there is no discretionary enforcement of the law in Singapore? Like every other jurisdiction on earth, Singapore has prosecutorial discretion. [0] A handful of jurisdictions, such as Germany, traditionally reject prosecutorial jurisdiction in theory, but that theory belies the fact that even in Germany it has always been inescapable in practice–no prosecutor on this earth has the resources to prosecute every known crime in their jurisdiction, they always have to pick and choose which cases to prosecute and how much effort and resources to put into each prosecution, and there is always going to be an element of subjective judgement in that decision, which will inevitably be coloured by the prosecutors' beliefs/culture/politics/attitudes/biases.

And, is prosecutorial discretion in Singapore applied in a purely impartial and non-discriminatory way? Considering Singapore's lengthy and ongoing history of politically motivated prosecutions (see for example [1]), it is rather obvious that it isn't.

Most jurisdictions accept that factors like intellectual disability need to be taken into account as mitigating circumstances, frequently leading to more lenient punishment, and sentencing which focuses more on protection and rehabilitation than less on retribution and deterrence, compared to an offender with normal (or above-normal) intellectual capacity. The idea that intellectually disabled people ought to be treated with particular leniency is one supported by the United Nations, and even by the US Supreme Court (which held, in the 2002 case of Atkins v. Virginia, that executing the intellectually disabled is unconstitutional)–so extending them that leniency is hardly a "lie to cover for discretionary enforcement", nor a "pernicious type of corruption"

[0] https://singaporelegaladvice.com/law-articles/prosecutorial-...

[1] https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/10/singapore-fir...

Re: Singapore Government Tech Stack

#73
post #63
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s not pretend that China’s laws and norms are comparable to those of the US here, though. Yes, it’s reasonable to be skeptical of all states, but there’s definitely a difference of degree in state overreach.

They are comparable. China is still worse, but: 1) I fully expect to see the US government make up most of the US economy by spending in my lifetime (I'd argue they are already there, but that involves an argument I don't feel like typing). 2) COVID shows us that the US government also sees their role as deploying an invasive level of social control for The Greater Good. COVID level threats aren't going to be that ra…

China lacks rule of law, or even an attempt at it: the Chinese government has stated that the notion of rule of law is just western imperialism. This is why, China having a constitution that guarantees freedom of speech, religion, assembly, and so on, is completely meaningless (no independent judiciary means the law is whatever officials claim it is) whereas an attempt of rule of law is actually made in the USA, even if it is far from perfect.

Ironically, we are debating Singapore in parent, which has extremely strong rule of law, but the laws are such that security is prioritized.

Re: Singapore Government Tech Stack

#74
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which Lee Kuan Yew was well aware of, and set up a constitution that makes it easy to peacefully remove a government. The only reason the PAP is still in power is because Singaporeans don't want to get rid of them.

Gerrymandering is a popular tactics used by PAP in Singapore, to ensure they stay in power. In most democracies the Govt., Supreme Court and the Election Commission are independent of each other. Thereby elections are run fairly. But in Singapore, the election commission and supreme court is run by the govt. in power. This makes it easier for the party in power to sustain it's reign.

Gerrymandering would be somewhat curtailed (not nullified, I agree) if most of the people would have supported the opposition. They just don't. In the last General Elections, PAP's margin of victory did shrink from the past but it was still a pretty big margin[0].

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Singaporean_general_elect...

Re: Singapore Government Tech Stack

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just over a week ago, Singapore executed by hanging an intellectually disabled Malaysian man (of Indian descent), Nagaenthran K. Dharmalingam. His crime? He was caught trying to import heroin – I think it very likely the traffickers exploited his intellectual disability in order to talk him into becoming a drug mule. In this regard, Singapore is a rather extreme outlier among developed countries – few of which retain…

On the flip side, Singapore has an order of magnitude less drug abuse that we see in most Western countries (not hyperbole, backed by statistics). My great uncle, at one point, was heroin addict who was trying to get his life together. After he came out of rehab, his old "friends" tracked him down to convince him to get back into the game. The first hit they gave him put his body into shock (he had been clean for wee…

I think there is another option that is better than either. Heroin is unfairly maligned as a drug – the majority of the harms of heroin addiction are due to its illegality, not due to the drug itself.

Suppose the government sold pharmaceutical quality heroin to the general public. It could open premises where heroin was sold, for on-premises consumption only. The premises would have staff who were trained in safe administration of injections, resuscitation, administration of naltrexone, sharps management, etc. The government could operate these services on a non-profit basis, so the price of the heroin was the minimum required to pay for the drug itself, and the premises/staff/equipment/security/utilities/administration/etc. It could prohibit entry of minors, promote counselling and withdrawal services, etc.

What would be the likely outcome? Well, the black market would shrink dramatically – most addicts and long-term users would migrate to the government-provided service, since it would be cheaper and safer. Faced with the sudden competition, black market operators would likely shift to other lines of business (other drugs, or non-drug illegal businesses such as people trafficking or extortion). The number of deaths from heroin overdose would dramatically fall, since most users would be using heroin at these supervised premises. Pharmaceutical quality heroin would enable precise control over dosage which would eliminate many accidental overdoses; any overdoses remaining would receive prompt medical attention. With prompt medical attention, the odds of surviving a heroin overdose are actually very good. And, unlike illegal operators, it seems unlikely that a government-run service would try to push the substance on the public (and if that ever did happen, the solution would be to remove and punish the staff responsible for that, not abolish the service entirely.)

Long-term heroin addiction, if the substance is legally available at a low cost, pharmaceutical quality, and under medical supervision, is a relatively benign condition from a medical viewpoint. Sure, it does have some negative psychological consequences – such as dulling of thought and motivation and emotions – and it would be best for the addicts to (if they can) gradually wean themselves off it to overcome those negative psychological consequences. But, to be honest, in that respect it is actually not hugely different from many psychotropic drugs (such as antipsychotics and antidepressants) prescribed long-term to a significant percentage of the population. It is far more benign than alcohol, which is a far harsher substance on the body, with potential consequences as cirrhosis of the liver. Most of the negative long-term health consequences of heroin are due to its illegality – for example, many heroin addicts end up with cirrhosis of the liver much like many alcoholics do, but via a very different mechanism. Alcohol directly causes liver disease, heroin is a very benign substance as far as the liver is concerned. [0] Rather, heroin addicts end up with viral hepatitis from sharing needles, and then the hepatitis causes the cirrhosis. If heroin were legalised (in the way I've described), sharing needles would be eliminated, and then heroin addicts would be no more likely to have liver disease than the general population.

I can't see how one can justify the government killing people in cold blood in order to (allegedly) save lives, when there is something else the government could do which would likely save just as many (or even more) lives without killing anyone at all. Ultimately, since the majority of drugs deaths are caused, not by the inherent nature of the drug, but rather by the consequences of its (near-)total illegality, we should really blame for those deaths, not the drug traffickers, but rather governments and legislators, upon whose misguided policies drug traffickers rely for the existence of their businesses.

[0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK548690/

Re: Singapore Government Tech Stack

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that’s a big part of why their country is wealthy and successful while their neighboring countries are disasters.

Korea and Japan rose from the ashes (Japan having lost WWII after their imperialist ambitions failed) in the same amount of time. Korea had a dictatorship or sorts but Japan didn't, but unless I'm mistaken, neither government was as autocratic (and still is) like the PAP is today.

The first Korean Republic (1948-1960) was vastly more repressive than the PAP at its worst, let alone today. Mass arrests of political opponents, reeducation camps, massacres: you name it, Rhee did it. The second republic (1960 to 1961) was theoretically a liberal democracy, but got couped almost immediately. After that, South Korea remained a somewhat milder developmental dictatorship, ala Singapore, until 1987.

Re: Singapore Government Tech Stack

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just over a week ago, Singapore executed by hanging an intellectually disabled Malaysian man (of Indian descent), Nagaenthran K. Dharmalingam. His crime? He was caught trying to import heroin – I think it very likely the traffickers exploited his intellectual disability in order to talk him into becoming a drug mule. In this regard, Singapore is a rather extreme outlier among developed countries – few of which retain…

On the flip side, Singapore has an order of magnitude less drug abuse that we see in most Western countries (not hyperbole, backed by statistics). My great uncle, at one point, was heroin addict who was trying to get his life together. After he came out of rehab, his old "friends" tracked him down to convince him to get back into the game. The first hit they gave him put his body into shock (he had been clean for wee…

    "but is 1-2 executions a year really worse than tens of thousands of lives being destroyed by drugs?"
Would you feel the same if this person was your son?

Re: Singapore Government Tech Stack

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side, Singapore has an order of magnitude less drug abuse that we see in most Western countries (not hyperbole, backed by statistics). My great uncle, at one point, was heroin addict who was trying to get his life together. After he came out of rehab, his old "friends" tracked him down to convince him to get back into the game. The first hit they gave him put his body into shock (he had been clean for wee…

"but is 1-2 executions a year really worse than tens of thousands of lives being destroyed by drugs?" Would you feel the same if this person was your son?

>Would you feel the same if this person was your son?

If one of my children started destroying the lives of others on mass for profit, I'd probably consider taking them out myself.

Re: Singapore Government Tech Stack

#79
post #7

This looks impressive, and something we (America) should copy. Man, I can't help wishing that if we had to have a dictator why couldn't it be someone (mostly) reasonable like Lee Kwan Yew.

Just over a week ago, Singapore executed by hanging an intellectually disabled Malaysian man (of Indian descent), Nagaenthran K. Dharmalingam. His crime? He was caught trying to import heroin – I think it very likely the traffickers exploited his intellectual disability in order to talk him into becoming a drug mule. In this regard, Singapore is a rather extreme outlier among developed countries – few of which retain…

> > Man, I can't help wishing that if we had to have a dictator why couldn't it be someone (mostly) reasonable like Lee Kwan Yew.

> So yeah, Lee Hsien Loong seems like a cool guy – wow, a Prime Minister who can write C++.

Javajosh was admiring Lee Kwan Yew, the founding father of Singapore. You are talking about Lee Hsien Loong, the current prime minister.

Re: Singapore Government Tech Stack

#80
post #17

Let’s not forget the whole fiasco with Singapore’s TraceTogether app for contact tracing during the pandemic. The actual implementation of it differs significantly from the white paper they open-sourced. The actual app does not anonymize the data and the government has access to everyone’s location and interaction data. Initially, their privacy policy promised the data would only be used for tracking of the spread of…

> Initially, their privacy policy promised the data would only be used for tracking of the spread of COVID but it was later revealed by the parliament that the police had in fact accessed the data for investigation purposes

Australia is also complicit in abusing COVID contact tracing datasets. At least in one well publicised case, a police officer accessed someone's location information even without requesting a court order first because… well, it made sense to the police officer. There are likely other instances of the contact tracing abuse, however they are likely to have been quietly swept under the rug.

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