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Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

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Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#291

Post by cyberlurker »

softwaredoug wrote: post #226

Whether you favor in office or remote, you have to admit our cost structures have fundamentally reoriented the last 2 years. Think of the commuting costs, living near/far from the office, the different types of day care options, etc etc that have shifted in the last two years. Imagine being told you’re going to get a 10% cut in pay due to the need to go in the office? That’s what RTO probably feels like to peoples po…

This is exactly right and it can be much more than 10%. And at the same time, many professionals can go out and land a new, remote job with a pay bump. I’ve seen it nonstop the last year. People are speaking with their feet and I love it.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#292

Post by Supermancho »

Overtonwindow wrote: post #199

That's unfortunate but there's thousands of equally qualified people who will gladly will their spot, and come into the office.

The chances that people in a given area have a specific skillset or are of the commensurate skill level for a position, pushes the compensation necessary to entice those "equally qualified people" upwards. The issues is the tradeoff of compensation for office time. If individuals want less office time than the company consensus on policy (which implies attempted negotiation), all they can do is quit. If the company wants to spend more, they can choose to do that and will likely have to. It's not uncommon that a position sits empty, for some time, after a high level exit. It's equally possible this person was already in a position of weak confidence. It's unlikely that the public will be made aware of that level of detail. It's not as simple as swapping in cheaper, available labor, in the interest of corporate profit.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#293

Post by nvr219 »

LigmaYC wrote: post #272
supernova87a wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can tell you from direct experience that he is no big loss for Apple. And he wasn't "Apple's Director of ML" as in the headline makes it sound like the top company lead for this topic. He was a director, among many. A reasonably sized group leader, not say, a JG.

You take bureaucratic rankings too seriously, Goodfellow has a reputation outside of Apple.

Great point, Ligma.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#294

Post by andrekandre »

tomohawk wrote: post #63
qbasic_forever wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We deserve to have input into how we work best and if that means walking away from companies run by egomaniacs that need to see butts in seats, then so be it. The logical conclusion of this line of thinking is to organize your coworkers. You have much more bargaining power about your work conditions as an organized union. The history of unionization stems primarily from workers demanding safe working environments.

Having seen how several family members fared in union jobs (several different unions), I swore I'd never belong to a union or work any job that required me to be part of one. They all had such an adversarial relationship with work. It's always us against them mentality. They could never see anyone in management as a human. I can't imagine living like that. As far as I can tell, the unions didn't ever solve any of the…

is it possible that adversarial relationship might exist even without a union but it would just be hidden?

personally, i think i would prefer a co-ownership (coop) scheme than union, since that adversarial relationship is basically dissolved since you are also the owner along with your co-workers... idk just a thought

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#295

Post by barry-cotter »

hiddencost wrote: post #92
prirun wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You have much more bargaining power about your work conditions as an organized union. You also give away your power as an individual to those running the union.

I'll refrain from ruder responses and point to the weekend as a lovely innovation powered by unions. How did you get so intensely in thrall of the people holding your collar?

They have weekends in China and it’s not because of any labor movement. Working conditions and compensation increase because of supply and demand dynamics, which unions are a part of but not necessary for. For another example of countries that do not tolerate independent labor movements where economic growth led to better working conditions see Vietnam.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#296

Post by holografix »

ricardobeat wrote: post #145
holografix wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. I currently work at a very prestigious tech company and I’m surprised by how boring it actually is. There’s hardly anyone around in the office and frankly I couldn’t care less about the free stuff. They pay me enough that I can go out and buy my own snacks. What I want is a team to learn from and grow. Not some teachers pets that sit behind zoom calls making sure they know exactly what’s “on the test” so t…

Is being in the same physical place the requisite for being 'a team'? Open-source work traditionally has been distributed, and I bet it often results in teams that are closer than the ones from work.

Is a comfortable car with plenty of fuel a requisite for a long road trip? No, you can go by foot, horse, etc. it sure does help though.

Open source work is a infinitesimally small proportion of *work*. No I don’t think it results in teams that are closer at all, I think (and can present no data either) that it’s just as likely to result in bickering and infighting. Guido leaving Python might be a good example.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#297

Post by barry-cotter »

ben_w wrote: post #152
prirun wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You have much more bargaining power about your work conditions as an organized union. You also give away your power as an individual to those running the union.

In much the same way that “getting a lawyer” gives away one’s power in a courtroom.

Your lawyer is your agent. A lawyer representing a group of which you are a part is representing the group, and your interests and the groups can diverge.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#298

Post by holografix »

almost_usual wrote: post #177
holografix wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. I currently work at a very prestigious tech company and I’m surprised by how boring it actually is. There’s hardly anyone around in the office and frankly I couldn’t care less about the free stuff. They pay me enough that I can go out and buy my own snacks. What I want is a team to learn from and grow. Not some teachers pets that sit behind zoom calls making sure they know exactly what’s “on the test” so t…

> What I want is a team to learn from and grow. Not some teachers pets that sit behind zoom calls making sure they know exactly what’s “on the test” so they make themselves look better. I’m not sure what your role is but zoom calls really don’t mean anything as an IC. Not unless you’re responding to or handling an outage and debugging on the fly. What you produce and how well it works is how you’re measured. Document…

I totally understand your pov and it’s often the one shared by full remote folks who enjoy it that way: “I produce good work nothing else matters”.

I find that a really sad, if not completely rational, outlook.

See I don’t want to work with someone who outputs great work only. I want to work who can share a joke, help out, bounce ideas of, experiment with new things and fail/succeed.

In other words, I like work to be joyful and productive.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#299

Post by temp8964 »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #262
elpakal wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um, > running the company into the ground how so?

By putting the former head of Pepsi in charge, letting him push out Jobs, and then putting the company in such a dire financial situation that when they rehired Jobs, he had to go to Microsoft for a bailout.

Jobs hired that guy to be CEO.
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