Live data from Hacker News

Amazon abruptly fires senior managers tied to unionized warehouse

nytimes.com

161–170 of 244 posts

Re: Amazon abruptly fires senior managers tied to unionized warehouse

#161
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people blame unions for killing the American dominance of car manufacturing worldwide. And the general de-industrialization of the US. It was a big hit to peoples conceptualization of the country.

That's odd because Union membership has dropped off of a cliff. Worth noting that Unions can be good and bad - and entrenched union that takes control of the workforce, the kind of place where they don't pick up a hammer unless it's in their job spec, or where hiring/layoffs are 100% controlled by Union ... that can be a problem. But typically where Unions are formed there's probably a reason. Walmart, AWS, and proba…

Did you ever hear of "Union Busting"? Do you know that Ronald Reagan as President signed some of the most anti-union legislation ever?

One must be careful not to use 'union' as a catch-all to describe all worker groups.

At the moment, the Capitalists are extracting as much as possible from US Citizens through excessive price hikes (much over underlying inflation - this is well-documented). They will continue to do this until the median American sinks even lower in standard of living.

Your 'rule of thumb' is exactly right-on -- the first part. But the 'entrenched' --- we have to be careful of using the Crony Capitalist talking points frames. The point of the Capitalist is to keep as big a pile for himself, all others (except shareholders) be damned. That's how it works. It is a rapacious, greedy, antiquated way to organize human labor, production, and lives. I am hopeful that younger generations can recognize the brainwashing they are receiving from the Corporate Media, and can break free from these chains, and, eventually, replace this system of institutionalized greed with something that more equitably permits sharing of our resources.

Re: Amazon abruptly fires senior managers tied to unionized warehouse

#162
> The managers were told they were being fired as part of an “organizational change,”

Nit: That language implies that they were laid off, not fired. The timing is a stupid move from Amazon, and these employees will likely be able to make a good case in court.

Being from Europe I have mixed feelings about unions here in the US...

On the one hand I think they are essential to tilt the uneven power dynamic between employer and employee towards the employee, and are thus dearly needed!

On the other hand, unions seem to often go overboard with impractical demands and are more political than in Europe, which damaged their reputation - I think - and contributed to their demise over the past few decades. Which is truly a shame! (I'm reminded of alleged cases where only a union worker is allow to plug a power plug into an outlet at exorbitant prices. But this might a rumor too.)

Any opinions here?

Re: Amazon abruptly fires senior managers tied to unionized warehouse

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the line you quoted says company not industry. Ecommerce is a relatively young industry anyway. And Amazon has been around since what, 94? So 6 years is over 20% of the time Amazon has existed.

Fair point. I just found it to be an interesting choice of words. Whenever they use the same term, in other industries, they are talking about double-digit tenures. The main point is that this is a fairly unambiguous message to other managers, that allowing unionization to happen under their watch would be a careericidal offense. That means that they can expect the warehouse managers to get pretty desperate, and prob…

Amazon's done this with most of their functions. Push expectations: claim no responsibility for outcome.

Walmart laid out the playbook that profits in a thin margin market require you being an asshole to your counterparties, but blackmailing them into still working with you via scale.

Re: Amazon abruptly fires senior managers tied to unionized warehouse

#164
post #21
post #15

My guess is that they didn't fire them for "letting it happen" exactly. They probably fired them because the employees would view those managers as someone they recently defeated over a major issue. Which changes the power dynamic in a way that's distinct from the presence of the union itself. It's a weak attempt to get some of that back.

Or maybe as an example for other managers? Basically it's "no union" or your head... Disgusting anyway.

I read somewhere that these particular managers were somewhat well-like by the employees. Now that may or may not be true...but if true, then it's a kind of "start a union, and the bunny gets it" situation.

Re: Amazon abruptly fires senior managers tied to unionized warehouse

#165
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not "anti-union rhetoric," come on. When is the last time a union has been formed in a workplace where everyone is happy, well paid, has great WLB, etc?

In my previous job in Germany. Sector: Tech and Research. Excellent managers, amazing WLB (worked till 8PM once and the manager apologised next day), well paid: earning the median income straight out of college. Had an excellent union and everyone in company hierarchy worked cordially and yet deferentially with them. Unions are not necessarily a form of attack. Unionise.

I’ve always wondered if collective bargaining makes things easier in some way for a management.

Re: Amazon abruptly fires senior managers tied to unionized warehouse

#166

> The managers were told they were being fired as part of an “organizational change,” Nit: That language implies that they were laid off, not fired. The timing is a stupid move from Amazon, and these employees will likely be able to make a good case in court. Being from Europe I have mixed feelings about unions here in the US... On the one hand I think they are essential to tilt the uneven power dynamic between emplo…

...What case in court?

Re: Amazon abruptly fires senior managers tied to unionized warehouse

#167
post #166

> The managers were told they were being fired as part of an “organizational change,” Nit: That language implies that they were laid off, not fired. The timing is a stupid move from Amazon, and these employees will likely be able to make a good case in court. Being from Europe I have mixed feelings about unions here in the US... On the one hand I think they are essential to tilt the uneven power dynamic between emplo…

...What case in court?

Unlawful Termination?

Re: Amazon abruptly fires senior managers tied to unionized warehouse

#168
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not "anti-union rhetoric," come on. When is the last time a union has been formed in a workplace where everyone is happy, well paid, has great WLB, etc?

In my previous job in Germany. Sector: Tech and Research. Excellent managers, amazing WLB (worked till 8PM once and the manager apologised next day), well paid: earning the median income straight out of college. Had an excellent union and everyone in company hierarchy worked cordially and yet deferentially with them. Unions are not necessarily a form of attack. Unionise.

German unions are much different than US unions though.

Re: Amazon abruptly fires senior managers tied to unionized warehouse

#170

> The managers were told they were being fired as part of an “organizational change,” Nit: That language implies that they were laid off, not fired. The timing is a stupid move from Amazon, and these employees will likely be able to make a good case in court. Being from Europe I have mixed feelings about unions here in the US... On the one hand I think they are essential to tilt the uneven power dynamic between emplo…

> only a union worker is allow to plug a power plug into an outlet at exorbitant prices.

So I have first experience in this working around and with IATSE members. So in the world of events and movie productions there are union and non-union productions. But it is 100% one or the other. For example you wouldn't be able to hire a union head electrician and a group of non-union journeymen. And there are quite a lot of places that will try to do just that. The power outlet seems innocuous on the surface, but it can escalate quickly. And that event will have your name on the credits so you are responsible for what happens.

I wouldn't anyone to plug just anything into my personal network either.

Post reply on HN