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‘Enforced childbirth is slavery’: Margaret Atwood on the right to abortion

theguardian.com

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Re: ‘Enforced childbirth is slavery’: Margaret Atwood on the right to abortion

#11

Post by the_only_law »

trasz wrote: post #8
DamnYuppie wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abortions can be easily avoided if people didn't have unprotected sex with people they don't wish to raise a family with. They had complete control over their body and who they shared it with but just don't want to deal with any of the consequences of it, I find it all very sad.

Pedestrian accidents can be easily avoided if people didn’t try to cross the street. Would you advocate banning medical aid to pedestrians? Because that’s your reasoning above.

Tbh I’ve seen people argue things along these lines.

Re: ‘Enforced childbirth is slavery’: Margaret Atwood on the right to abortion

#12

Post by trasz »

I think the fundamental problem here is we, as society, tend to tolerate fringe theories just because they are related to some form of cult. There is no logically valid justification for abortion ban - it isn’t any different from flat earthism, other than being harmful. But we tolerate it, because certain religion says so.

Re: ‘Enforced childbirth is slavery’: Margaret Atwood on the right to abortion

#13

Post by moistly »

DamnYuppie wrote: post #5
trasz wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driving a submarine wherever you want isn’t a fundamental human right. Deciding about one’s own body is. A better example would be forcing someone to become an organ donor to save someone else. That’s pretty much equivalent to abortion ban.

Abortions can be easily avoided if people didn't have unprotected sex with people they don't wish to raise a family with. They had complete control over their body and who they shared it with but just don't want to deal with any of the consequences of it, I find it all very sad.

I can’t even. Is it ignorance? Malice? Trolling? Whatever it is, it’s despicable and doesn’t belong on HN.

Re: ‘Enforced childbirth is slavery’: Margaret Atwood on the right to abortion

#14

Post by cyphercat »

DamnYuppie wrote: post #5
trasz wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driving a submarine wherever you want isn’t a fundamental human right. Deciding about one’s own body is. A better example would be forcing someone to become an organ donor to save someone else. That’s pretty much equivalent to abortion ban.

Abortions can be easily avoided if people didn't have unprotected sex with people they don't wish to raise a family with. They had complete control over their body and who they shared it with but just don't want to deal with any of the consequences of it, I find it all very sad.

You pretty much touched on the central issue. "Sex without consequences" is pretty much what's at stake here. And you start telling people they can't just go around having sex with whoever, you really kick the hornets nest.

Re: ‘Enforced childbirth is slavery’: Margaret Atwood on the right to abortion

#15

Post by reitanqild »

Much of the problem is that there is no grown up in the Democratic camp who can tell the others that abortion until birth isn't just cruel but also insane.

Same on the Republican side where there is no grown up to tell them to stop listening to Tucker Carlson when he supports a genocidal war.

Re: ‘Enforced childbirth is slavery’: Margaret Atwood on the right to abortion

#16

Post by I_DRINK_KOOLAID »

cr__ wrote: post #9
I_DRINK_KOOLAID wrote: post #4

Both right-wing people and left-wing people are worried about humans who are not born yet. Left-wingers worry about people who'd be alive 100-150 years from now and thus want to stop climate change. Right-wingers worry about people who'd be alive 6-9 months from now and thus want to stop abortions. I say we should go full boomer and only worry about ourselves! Rolling coal with our large pickup trucks on the way to t…

> Right-wingers worry about people who'd be alive 6-9 months from now and thus want to stop abortions. No, they want to constrain medical decisions to reduce what they see as unacceptable promiscuity. They will generally confirm this to you if you ask them to.

Maybe, but I think they'd concede abortion if left-wingers concede climate paranoia. Somebody should organize peace talks.

Re: ‘Enforced childbirth is slavery’: Margaret Atwood on the right to abortion

#17

Post by scantis »

This is completely blown out of any conceivable proportion. The supreme court is correct, they should strike their previous decision and let the lawmakers create the proper framework.

Weird to equate this to slavery. These people actually think the supreme court revoking its previous ruling will ban abortions outright.

Re: ‘Enforced childbirth is slavery’: Margaret Atwood on the right to abortion

#18

Post by trasz »

cyphercat wrote: post #14
DamnYuppie wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abortions can be easily avoided if people didn't have unprotected sex with people they don't wish to raise a family with. They had complete control over their body and who they shared it with but just don't want to deal with any of the consequences of it, I find it all very sad.

You pretty much touched on the central issue. "Sex without consequences" is pretty much what's at stake here. And you start telling people they can't just go around having sex with whoever, you really kick the hornets nest.

In other words it’s all about upholding religious prejudices, which, while harmful to society, benefit certain people. It’s no different from sharia law. (Except even sharia law doesn’t condone this particular stupidity.)

Re: ‘Enforced childbirth is slavery’: Margaret Atwood on the right to abortion

#19

Post by version_five »

I_DRINK_KOOLAID wrote: post #16
cr__ wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Right-wingers worry about people who'd be alive 6-9 months from now and thus want to stop abortions. No, they want to constrain medical decisions to reduce what they see as unacceptable promiscuity. They will generally confirm this to you if you ask them to.

Maybe, but I think they'd concede abortion if left-wingers concede climate paranoia. Somebody should organize peace talks.

This is a better point than comes across on the first read. What's behind alarmism is often just really a desire to control other people, and the government should be severely limited in the kinds of controls it can apply, regardless of the "cause". Somehow I doubt both sides will come together and embrace libertarianism however. I think it's more likely that politicians of all stripes come together in favor of more government power, which is where all mainstream parties are heading now.

Re: ‘Enforced childbirth is slavery’: Margaret Atwood on the right to abortion

#20

Post by Ekaros »

scantis wrote: post #17

This is completely blown out of any conceivable proportion. The supreme court is correct, they should strike their previous decision and let the lawmakers create the proper framework. Weird to equate this to slavery. These people actually think the supreme court revoking its previous ruling will ban abortions outright.

There are two entirely acceptable approaches. A state level legislation. Or constitutional amendment ratified by the correct process.

I don't really see any reason why either of those wouldn't be acceptable. Instead of this rather messy way done in judicial system that really don't have legs to stand on.

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