Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Amazon abruptly fires senior managers tied to unionized warehouse

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 244 posts

Re: Amazon abruptly fires senior managers tied to unionized warehouse

#81

Post by oicU00 »

wardedVibe wrote: post #63
donthellbanme wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know those help wanted commercials Amazon floods media with, "We pay $15 to start, blah, blah. Start a new career." I just assumed they were always hiring because of consistent growth. According to the guy (forget his name. Wears a gold chain.) representing the union; Amazon fires a lot of employees. Many for no reason. (I once read a restaurant success book. Everything he recommended made sence, except one, and…

Another benefit of firing workers early is it increases churn, which makes forming unions in the first place difficult, since it relies on trust between workers.

Same idea seems work in public favor when firing politicians frequently: https://www.nber.org/papers/w29766

Re: Amazon abruptly fires senior managers tied to unionized warehouse

#82

Post by syshum »

tokai wrote: post #76
stormbrew wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most unions don’t allow managers to join, as they’re generally considered to be part of capital’s collective bargaining side, if not part of capital themselves. I think most modern labor theory includes a “professional-managerial class” to account for this. There’s an argument to be had about where this line makes sense in modern megacorps but local managers in blue collar work tend to hold a lot of power over their…

Every group can organize. There's no magical barrier. Dunno about the US but unions for management does exist in other countries.

This is one of the ongoing problems with discussion about "unions"

"Unions" in the US are very very very very very different legally than "unions" in EU and other nations, personally i think they are so different we need a different term for them...

The closest we have to a EU style union would be something like SAG, or the other entertainment unions, which often referr to themselves as Guilds.

The employment unions like being formed at amazon are different animals all together which have ALOT of downside for even the workers in them.

Re: Amazon abruptly fires senior managers tied to unionized warehouse

#83

Post by avgcorrection »

ISL wrote: post #57
avgcorrection wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could be many reasons I guess. But maybe we should apply the Labor–Capital Razor: what signal does this send to the remaining managers? And what are they likely to do in response?

If GP is correct, then that signal would be, "Treat everyone who works here more-fairly and address their concerns in a timely manner. It is in everyone's best interest."

In that case then the concerns of the workers could have been addressed by going over the heads of the senior managers to the higher-ups. Which provokes two questions:

- Why did it get to the point of a strike if this was just a case of bad internal communication?

- Does this theory really gel with how aggressive Amazon has been against unionization activity? Apparently they could have just met the concerns of the workers immediately.

EDIT:

> If GP is correct, then that signal would be,

On second thought: I am talking about the likely signal that they want to send to other managers, i.e. how they will interpret it. And to just spell it out: I think they will be more wary of associating with unions.

Re: Amazon abruptly fires senior managers tied to unionized warehouse

#84

Post by syshum »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #3
faangiq wrote: post #2

They’re reaching a market cap where it would make sense to fire everyone but AWS.

It's confusing why investors haven't pushed harder for AWS to be spun-off into its own entity.

Elon should buy it and take it Private ;)

Re: Amazon abruptly fires senior managers tied to unionized warehouse

#85

Post by avgcorrection »

dragonwriter wrote: post #77
sieabahlpark wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if it was literally covered up systemically at each warehouse where the issues lie? They're not omniscient.

> Not if it was literally covered up systemically at each warehouse where the issues lie? So, you think that they managed to systemically cover up their misdeeds from higher management before the election, but conveniently failed to continue that coverup after the union election. I mean, sure, you concoct a strained narrative which makes this a noble move by Amazon’s higher management, but...why strain to do that?

It’s the Amazon senior manager cabal which manages to coordinate better and have better information across the whole company compared to the Amazon executives. You have not heard of it?

Re: Amazon abruptly fires senior managers tied to unionized warehouse

#87

Post by MrStonedOne »

stormbrew wrote: post #49
rolandog wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it be ironic that this makes Senior Managers realize it's in their best interest to join a union?

Most unions don’t allow managers to join, as they’re generally considered to be part of capital’s collective bargaining side, if not part of capital themselves. I think most modern labor theory includes a “professional-managerial class” to account for this. There’s an argument to be had about where this line makes sense in modern megacorps but local managers in blue collar work tend to hold a lot of power over their…

No post body was provided.

Re: Amazon abruptly fires senior managers tied to unionized warehouse

#88

Post by shlurpy »

dragonwriter wrote: post #66
rolandog wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it be ironic that this makes Senior Managers realize it's in their best interest to join a union?

Senior managers (heck, even line managers) do not have the right to unionize.

Historically, no group has a right to unionize until they fight to earn it, usually through unionization.

Re: Amazon abruptly fires senior managers tied to unionized warehouse

#89

Post by Ekaros »

donthellbanme wrote: post #38
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #11

> Several were veterans of the company, with more than six years of experience I think it's sad that we have an industry, where someone with six years' experience, is considered a "veteran." But it sounds like Amazon is sending a message to managers of other warehouses, to go as low as possible, to fight unionization. Expect things to get ugly.

You know those help wanted commercials Amazon floods media with, "We pay $15 to start, blah, blah. Start a new career." I just assumed they were always hiring because of consistent growth. According to the guy (forget his name. Wears a gold chain.) representing the union; Amazon fires a lot of employees. Many for no reason. (I once read a restaurant success book. Everything he recommended made sence, except one, and…

Having watched the HVAC videos about restaurants and walking freezers with doors left open by new employees causing problems for hardware and their operation in general. Maybe that isn't best solution. Then again maybe returns on other side cover any such issues...

Which I rather doubt that you can train them in all things in that timeframe...

Re: Amazon abruptly fires senior managers tied to unionized warehouse

#90

Post by hungryforcodes »

avgcorrection wrote: post #47
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #11

> Several were veterans of the company, with more than six years of experience I think it's sad that we have an industry, where someone with six years' experience, is considered a "veteran." But it sounds like Amazon is sending a message to managers of other warehouses, to go as low as possible, to fight unionization. Expect things to get ugly.

I think the sad part is getting fired over union association.

Both!
Post reply on HN