Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

identityblog.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 222 posts

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#151

Post by pilif »

Lukeas14 wrote: post #80
kisielk wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook could make data removable by users if they engineered their site to allow that. The problem is that they haven't, and it appears they've in fact done the opposite. We need data protection laws like this to put the onus on the service providers to make giving users control of their data a priority.

Deleting data in a complicated system is not at all a trivial task as data integrity can easily be impacted. So Facebook's excuse that they can't delete data at their scale is probably not just PR speak. For them there is no downside to keeping data besides a minority of their userbase complaining. Meanwhile the downside to deleting data is potentially huge and a mistake would be nonrecoverable. I wouldn't expect the…

Also for every user who complained that Facebook doesn't delete data, there will be thousands of users who complain that Facebook will not be able to restore accidentally deleted data.

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#152

Post by count »

zeteo wrote: post #102
Jach wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Misrepresentation is similar to neglect in that it's typically necessary for lawyers to argue and juries to decide. In this actual case, to repeat count's analogy, why aren't filesystem users complaining that their deleted data isn't "really deleted" (ignoring that such FS software is probably a no-warranty thing)? I've had to recover rm'd data a number of times myself. I don't think "deletion" has ever meant an expe…

It's not the same thing, I believe. When an OS deletes a file, it's actually deleted as far as the OS is concerned (thus they do make a best effort). When FB "deletes" something, they only make it unavailable to you , but they retain the option of using it themselves.

That's a good point, actually. Do we know for a fact if FB keeps the data available for use in their own algorithms/processes, even if they don't allow it's display?

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#153

Post by Mordor »

count wrote: post #14

Maybe it's my unenlightened American perspective coming out here, but why is this a big deal? You chose to use the Facebook service, you chose to provide this information to them, and you chose to agree to their terms of service. Facebook isn't a government agency, it's a private organization that has persuaded people to give it armloads of data about themselves, and uses that for whatever completely legal purposes i…

Facebook break the law, there's no opt out. Just like they can't opt out of sending you the complete collection of personal information they hold (for a nominal fee). Poor Facebook '-(

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#154

Post by [deleted] »

count wrote: post #14

Maybe it's my unenlightened American perspective coming out here, but why is this a big deal? You chose to use the Facebook service, you chose to provide this information to them, and you chose to agree to their terms of service. Facebook isn't a government agency, it's a private organization that has persuaded people to give it armloads of data about themselves, and uses that for whatever completely legal purposes i…

[deleted]

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#155

Post by rmc »

_delirium wrote: post #47
ruethewhirled wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think its to do with Irish tax laws being more favorable to large international companies EDIT see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_Arrangement

Wonder if tech companies will start to think twice about that particular tax dodge, given the subjecting-yourself-to-EU-jurisdiction tradeoff it involves.

Remember for EU companies, there are limitations to what (personal) data you can export outside the EU.

So if FB & Google & Amazon etc. were to 'leave' EU, then lots of EU companies would be legally unable to use their USA services.

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#156

Post by rmc »

runaway wrote: post #22
cwe wrote: post #7

Man I want a copy of my report. Considering they're supposedly all about eliminating privacy, shouldn't they want to make all this accessible?

Is the "Download a copy of your Facebook data." link under Account Settings not the data you want? It looked complete to me.

I've never used either, but remember that this legal disclosure has to be everything that they have on you. For the "Download your facebook", facebook get to decide what to include.

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#157

Post by huhtenberg »

count wrote: post #14

Maybe it's my unenlightened American perspective coming out here, but why is this a big deal? You chose to use the Facebook service, you chose to provide this information to them, and you chose to agree to their terms of service. Facebook isn't a government agency, it's a private organization that has persuaded people to give it armloads of data about themselves, and uses that for whatever completely legal purposes i…

Through Like button and widgets FB also tracks people who are not their users and never consented to that in any form. Does this sound OK too from your "unenlightened American perspective"?

  Arguably this lies outside of the complain domain, but it does 
  relate directly to the "not a big deal" stance. I find it 
  *shocking* that people accept it as a perfect norm what would 
  never fly in a physical world. 

  How many business owners wouldn't mind a post office retaining 
  a copy of their every mail? And furthermore using it to better 
  the type of junk mail being sent to the company. 

  Or how many regular folks would be OK with their alumni club 
  installing surveillance cameras in public and private places 
  to track their movement? Still not a big deal, eh? 

  Why do then things change when the very same businesses and people go online?
/rant

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#158

Post by anigbrowl »

Derbasti wrote: post #146
anigbrowl wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because EU citizens have a legal right to privacy; in the EU, your personal data belongs to you, and this ownership cannot simply be waived contractually. From the EU charter of fundamental rights, which has constitutional force: Protection of personal data 1. Everyone has the right to the protection of personal data concerning him or her. 2. Such data must be processed fairly for specified purposes and on the basis…

This might be a great way to brush up you CV after university (for law students).

I am a law student, as it happens. How do you mean?

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#159

Post by coldarchon »

dredmorbius wrote: post #141
coldarchon wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you don't get it, right? You already ARE a customer even BEFORE you agree to something which they don't abide. They use YOU even if you don't like it ..

No, you're not the customer. You're the product. What's particularly entertaining is how many people get annoyed at being reminded of this fact. Soylent green is people.

what is more entertaining to me is that people would understand if the company was microsoft ..

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#160

Post by bambax »

count wrote: post #14

Maybe it's my unenlightened American perspective coming out here, but why is this a big deal? You chose to use the Facebook service, you chose to provide this information to them, and you chose to agree to their terms of service. Facebook isn't a government agency, it's a private organization that has persuaded people to give it armloads of data about themselves, and uses that for whatever completely legal purposes i…

Although I agree with the basic principle that if you don't like what Facebook does, the best course of action is to not use Facebook, the argument that, in essence, a private company is free to do whatever it wants is absurd.

What Facebook is doing is illegal in the EU (or at least, its legality is in dispute).

Whether or not you agree with those regulations or think they are absurd is another matter entirely, and quite irrelevant, since you don't make the laws and can't even vote for the people who make them (because you're from a different part of the world).

Post reply on HN