Live data from Hacker News

Paul Graham, Dropbox and The Single Founder Exception

forbes.com

21–30 of 73 posts

Re: Paul Graham, Dropbox and The Single Founder Exception

#21
This whole treatment is a little odd.

First, he had a second "founder" before the program started, so it wasn't single-founder.

Second, luckily the second guy turned out to be "perfect". This could easily have backfired. It is far more likely that adding someone as a founder who you haven't worked with before will torpedo the company. IIRC, YC made this point previously.

So actually it was bad advice, like hitting on 17 in Blackjack, or not getting the right pot odds to call in Hold'em, and then calling anyway.

If you win, it's just dumb luck. If you try running the experiment a hundred times, adding an extra unknown person not only to a promising single founder but also trying to make promising two-person groups into three-person groups, you're going to decrease almost everyone's chances.

Third, there is pronounced over-romanticization of founders. It is extremely common for the founders to NOT be the most important cogs in their own companies. It is very common for companies to be started by people who have money but not skills, and of course then the people who DO everything are non-founders. It is also common for founders with skills to have employees with much better skills at the same thing. And even the decision-making is frequently done by advisors who guide the young and inexperienced founders on every key issue regarding having a company.

Tom was just the PR cover for MySpace. And who do you think really runs Facebook? Or Apple in its early days? Woz never ran engineering at Apple, and Jobs didn't run the company until his second coming. The gee-whiz kids in the dorms and garages are just the figureheads to market to their demographic. Just like Hot Topic markets to people who want to make a show out of how they refuse to conform by buying non-conformist uniforms in malls.

And dedication, sure. But some companies get lucky in less than a year, like Auctomatic. PG had to work for THREE years before he could retire. Drew has been going for four.

But dedication isn't as rare as it seems. Just look at the factory workers who work harder jobs for longer hours year after year making their Macbooks.

Overemphasis on founders hurts companies. One of the reasons it's so hard to hire is that founders think it's "generous" to offer a fraction of a percent equity to someone they desperately need to do the thing the company was founded to make in the first place.

IIRC, RethinkDB is/was in this boat. If you don't start with the needed expertise, and you find that you need to hire it or else you don't have a product, why would someone come work for you for 0.5% and average salary when by definition he could just start his own company doing the same thing?

So there are a zillion startups each with a handful of people at most and they all complain about the scarcity of talent, while they are offering the same or less as big companies that stick you with less responsibility, fewer hours, and no worries about burn rate.

Being a founder isn't special. What's special is solving hard problems and making the decisions that lead to a successful product or useful technology. That is orthogonal to being a founder.

No, really. Founders aren't special.

SBA.gov:

> An estimated 627,200 new employer firms began operations in 2008, and 595,600 firms closed that year. This amounts to an annual turnover of about 10 percent for entry and 10 percent for exit. Nonemployer firms have turnover rates three times as high as those of employer firms, mostly because of easier entry and exit conditions.

If you want a successful company, come off your high horse and spread out the equity. I've seen promising companies bite the dust or spin their wheels for years because the founder(s) couldn't bear to part with their equity, and end up holding close to a hundred percent of nothing.

Re: Paul Graham, Dropbox and The Single Founder Exception

#22
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's one of 18: http://paulgraham.com/startupmistakes.html

Any updates to this list since Oct '06?

PG's list is just the tip. Of one of many icebergs a startup will hit. Serious.

Head to http://pmarchive.com

Re: Paul Graham, Dropbox and The Single Founder Exception

#23
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not measuring. A "home run" to me is an exit, not a huge round at a huge valuation. But maybe it was an exit for YC/early investors, I don't know.

Dropbox took in $250 million cash for 6% of the company. Heroku took in $240 million cash for 100%.

And as soon as Dropbox becomes liquid, it will certainly be the biggest homerun.

Re: Paul Graham, Dropbox and The Single Founder Exception

#25
post #3

I don't understand where the fixation for multiple founders stems from. I know it increases the chances that the startup will succeed, but sometimes it's unnecessary. I'm starting to think that it's more of a power struggle issue- If YC can't get one founder to agree with or sign off on something, then they want to be able to approach the other founder and convince them instead.

> I don't understand where the fixation for multiple founders stems from

Basically the YC model stems from PG recreating his experience with ViaWeb. He started a company with his best friend and another expert programmer, so that's the model that seems like the "right" model to them.

Others have very different experiences working with other people (e.g. the much-maligned group projects in college) so they have a different mental model of what works and what doesn't, at least for themselves.

There are extremely valid arguments both ways which largely boil down to individual variation, but here's a key point that gets overlooked: Perhaps if you haven't done it as a single founder, you don't know what it takes, and so you don't know what to look for.

He has done it in a group. So if you're good at picking twos and threes, or feel you are, you can fill up your whole complement with those.

And then it becomes self-reinforcing. You get more and more confident with the one than the other which is avoided. Some pitchers rely on their fastball and don't develop their slider.

So eventually you're looking at, let's say for sake of illustration, 90% confidence in picking groups, but hardly any confidence still in picking solo founders.

So when you're looking at the last slot, do you want to add another group you are 90% sure of, or say no to someone you are excited about and go with some solo founder you are dubious about? And what about the second-to-last slot? And all the way back... Surely your FIRST choice isn't going to be a solo founder!

Even though YC claims not to have a fixed limit, obviously there is a practical limit. And when they say they fund everyone they find promising, you have to take it with a grain of salt, because in their model, being a single founder already isn't promising.

Re: Paul Graham, Dropbox and The Single Founder Exception

#26
As a single founder who's about to close his seed round (and was rejected from YC), I'm deeply concerned that opinions toward single founders are devolving from aversion, to bias, to self-fulfilling prophecy. With every step, investors are forfeiting the ability (or inclination) to evaluate this issue on the merits.

I personally have no trouble working with others, nor difficulty enrolling others in my vision. I am extremely emotionally stable—I don't take things personally and have little trouble riding the ups and downs. I acknowledge that there are benefits to a cofounder that I'm missing out on (as well as drawbacks I'm avoiding!), but simply put, it's disappointing to see many investors marching lock-step to the beat of someone else's drum.

Re: Paul Graham, Dropbox and The Single Founder Exception

#27
post #3

I don't understand where the fixation for multiple founders stems from. I know it increases the chances that the startup will succeed, but sometimes it's unnecessary. I'm starting to think that it's more of a power struggle issue- If YC can't get one founder to agree with or sign off on something, then they want to be able to approach the other founder and convince them instead.

Probably YC's way of saying, target this niche of single-founders because they are too mainstream. If you can handle investing in single-founders, you can rival YC I suppose.

Re: Paul Graham, Dropbox and The Single Founder Exception

#28
I'm also a single founder, and I'm investing part of my own money that I've been saving from all these years as a developer.

Being a single founder is hard, you have to deal with everything from incorporating, accounting, writing code, design, worry about SEO, how to introduce your project to the world get some momentum, etc..

Plus, add that to the fact that I'm from Europe, VC is very complicated here.

But because it's hard we should be more appreciated and not put aside.

I'm working on it for at least 3 months now and it's 90% complete, I've been able to keep motivated and I've learned lot along the way.

I just felt that this was the right path to go for me, I didn't feel the need have someone as a parter on this. I may be wrong in a long run but for now I'm pretty satisfied with what I've done.

Obviously I don't agree with YC rule here, I understand some of their view points , but not everything is true or false. Some great projects maybe aren't being looked into because of the single-founder rule.

But then again, you don't have to apply to YC or any funding, try something else, or simple bootstrap you idea and see how it goes.

Re: Paul Graham, Dropbox and The Single Founder Exception

#29

A co-founder is also the minimum social proof. Find at least one person in the world who is willing to bet on you and your startup.

Yeah, right. You forget: That is easy in college, but actually much more difficult later in life when all your friends have jobs and family. In other words, works in some way as a nicely worded age discrimination. Not that it affects me, but getting older makes you more sensitive for these things ;)

Re: Paul Graham, Dropbox and The Single Founder Exception

#30
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dropbox took in $250 million cash for 6% of the company. Heroku took in $240 million cash for 100%.

And as soon as Dropbox becomes liquid, it will certainly be the biggest homerun.

Unless it fails, of course.
Post reply on HN