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Mercedes-Benz says Level 3 self-driving option ready to roll

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Re: Mercedes-Benz says Level 3 self-driving option ready to roll

#161

Post by refulgentis »

slg wrote: post #153
kevinventullo wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s both, right? The competitors may very well be just as safe in those conditions, but we wouldn’t know based on their liability stance; the Fight Club equation simply doesn’t apply. With Mercedes, the Fight Club equation gives something like a mathematical guarantee of their estimated confidence of the safety of the system. There are no mathematical guarantees from the competitors.

>It’s both, right? The competitors may very well be just as safe in those conditions, but we wouldn’t know based on their liability stance; the Fight Club equation simply doesn’t apply. I was referencing Fight Club as an example of an auto manufacturer making a life and death decision based off their financial incentives and not the best interest of the customer. The decision to take on liability is about money, not…

> I was referencing Fight Club as an example of an auto manufacturer making a life and death decision based off their financial incentives and not the best interest of the customer. The decision to take on liability is about money, not confidence in safety.

The Fight Club scene is about how these two things are integrated: their confidence in safety defines their ability to choose to take on liability.

Yes, its intent in the story is to horrify: there's a lack of humanity, a reliance on a simple function relating those two variables.

However, that doesn't imply the two variables are unrelated, in fact, it implies they are completely correlated.

Re: Mercedes-Benz says Level 3 self-driving option ready to roll

#162

Post by judge2020 »

ksubedi wrote: post #73

What most people here complaining about the "40 mph" limit do not realize is that below 40mph is where it's hardest to implement proper self driving, as majority of below 40mph driving will be in city streets with pedestrians, frequent turns and more variables. Anything higher will generally be in highways where lane assist cruise control systems are already more than good enough. I will gladly take a system that can…

> under 40mph in city,

from the video:

> but once we hit some traffic we go under 40 miles an hour we'll be able to engage it but there are some other caveats: you have to be on a highway, the weather has to be nice, it can't be raining, it can't be freezing, and you can't change lanes; you have to stay in your lane while drive pilot is enabled

Hence the need for geofencing to the easiest situations where assuming liability means assuming nearly 0 liability. I really hope it progresses but we'll see in 3-5 years.

Re: Mercedes-Benz says Level 3 self-driving option ready to roll

#163

Post by autoexec »

verisimi wrote: post #42
verisimi wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, a huge leap. I can't possibly imagine that government would pass legislation that all the automakers would comply with. /s https://www.musclecarsandtrucks.com/biden-infrastructure-bil... "Deep within the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act that was signed into law by President Joe Biden is a passage that will require automakers to begin including what can be best summarized as a “vehicle kill switch” within t…

I'm being downvoted - but this is the reality of what will happen. Who wants that sort of monitoring when they are driving? Is this a consumer-driven feature? Or is this more government management - leveraging technology to micro-manage every detail of our lives - only allowing good citizens travel privileges etc? We are sleep walking into a dystopia, and I get downvoted for stating the obvious! Seriously - your gove…

Police have had this ability for a long time now:

https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2010/03/disabling_car...

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/Autos/story?id=3706113&page=...

This degrades our freedoms and our privacy. Many of us are already being tracked every time we drive. All of the tracking, all of the loss of control and it's not serving us. Most people aren't even aware it's happening to them. These "features" are and will increasingly be abused and not just by the government, but by the corporations as well. Do we really want a permanent record of everywhere we drive and when? Of how fast we went? Of who we were with and what we were talking about while in the vehicle? We'd better start asking ourselves those questions now because that's where we're headed.

Right now, you can at least physically disconnect and disable the OnStar system. In the future it seems likely that kind of thing will be entirely built in and impossible or illegal to disable.

Re: Mercedes-Benz says Level 3 self-driving option ready to roll

#164

Post by themacguffinman »

simondotau wrote: post #99
mdoms wrote: post #18

[flagged]

You are quoting someone who is egregiously misquoting and misunderstanding what Elon said in that recent earnings call. What he actually said: Of any technology development I’ve ever been involved in, I’ve never really seen more false dawns, or where it seems like we’re going to break through but we don’t as I’ve seen in full self-driving. And ultimately what it comes down to is that to solve full self-driving, you a…

I don't see the misunderstanding. Most of what you quoted is irrelevant, he said two key sentences:

"And so actually, when you think about it, in order to solve full self-driving, we have to solve neural nets and cameras to a degree of a capability that is on par with, and will really exceeds humans. And I think we will achieve that this year."

The meaning seems pretty clear. He says they will achieve "that", "that" being "solve full self-driving" and "solve ... on par with, and will really exceed humans" from the directly preceding sentence, which can only be either Level 4 or 5. Where is the misunderstanding?

Re: Mercedes-Benz says Level 3 self-driving option ready to roll

#165

Post by judge2020 »

gitfan86 wrote: post #10

"it's geofenced to certain roads, and only work under 40mph", " you should not use this in the rain" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMNnOosjrBo&ab_channel=Engad...

The full quote:

> once we hit some traffic we go under 40 miles an hour we'll be able to engage it but there are some other caveats: you have to be on a highway, the weather has to be nice, it can't be raining, it can't be freezing, and you can't change lanes; you have to stay in your lane while drive pilot is enabled

So it also needs to be on the highway.

Re: Mercedes-Benz says Level 3 self-driving option ready to roll

#166

Post by judge2020 »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #46
daenz wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if 40mph is a magic number that is a good tradeoff between speed and survivability (and injury-related out-of-court settlements)

That threshold is generally considered to be 20mph. Below that speed pedestrian injuries are unlikely to be fatal. It's what urban speed limits are in Sweden, and they average about one pedestrian death a year in the entire country.

It's limited to highways as well (hence the geofence), so they probably don't expect VRU incidents to happen much, if at all.

Re: Mercedes-Benz says Level 3 self-driving option ready to roll

#167

Post by judge2020 »

01100011 wrote: post #44
henrikschroder wrote: post #6

Meanwhile at Tesla: "We're the industry leaders, wait for us!"

Hey, they've had self driving ready to go next year since 2014( https://youtu.be/o7oZ-AQszEI ). Why so cynical? :)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30856861

The claims up until 2018 were met. 2018 is when Tesla got the hang of Model 3 production, so their value now had to come from promises like FSD beta.

Re: Mercedes-Benz says Level 3 self-driving option ready to roll

#170

Post by easytiger »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #46
daenz wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if 40mph is a magic number that is a good tradeoff between speed and survivability (and injury-related out-of-court settlements)

That threshold is generally considered to be 20mph. Below that speed pedestrian injuries are unlikely to be fatal. It's what urban speed limits are in Sweden, and they average about one pedestrian death a year in the entire country.

The reduction from 30mph to 20mph in London is political CV padding and has had no real effect on outcomes. All based on Chinese whispers. Wouldn't be surprised if your comment ended up as an original source in Islington's justification for some thing or other. It's that flimsy
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