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When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

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Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#71

Post by gimme_treefiddy »

lelandfe wrote: post #50
10000truths wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also probably would not have responded favorably to that wording – irrespective of if they were correct. Why not? I see nothing wrong with this sort of feedback. It's blunt, but constructive.

If it was your code they were talking about, you may feel differently. Blunt, hyperbolic statements like "massively overcomplicated" can feel like a shot across the bow when someone is talking about code you wrote. Kindness and gentleness go a long way in OSS.

Honestly the vague reference is what turned me off. It’s not thing to point at a specific item and suggest different approach, but to simply say the whole thing is over complicated makes it seems deliberately vague to be inflammatory.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#72

Post by HL33tibCe7 »

DHowett wrote: post #30

Another day, another Casey post dunking on my team. Hi! This tweet misses the mark only a little bit; in a previous blog post, we apologized[1] pretty frankly to everyone involved in this discussion. I'll admit that we didn't list him by name, but neither did we list the other handful of folks involved. We should have. In turn, Casey rightly did not acknowledge it except to tell his followers that it was not a real a…

I’m kind of in awe by the unprofessionalism of this response. In an era of incessant corporate PR, it’s somewhat refreshing lol.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#73

Post by indy »

DHowett wrote: post #30

Another day, another Casey post dunking on my team. Hi! This tweet misses the mark only a little bit; in a previous blog post, we apologized[1] pretty frankly to everyone involved in this discussion. I'll admit that we didn't list him by name, but neither did we list the other handful of folks involved. We should have. In turn, Casey rightly did not acknowledge it except to tell his followers that it was not a real a…

A good apology has three parts:

1. I'm sorry 2. It was my fault 3. How do I make it right?

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#74

Post by ghusbands »

This is worse than it looks, since the person who wrote the blog post is the same person who insulted the dev, and is the same person who joined that dev's related discord under a pseudonym. [1]

[1] https://twitter.com/cmuratori/status/1522471966929653761

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#75

Post by warent »

DHowett wrote: post #30

Another day, another Casey post dunking on my team. Hi! This tweet misses the mark only a little bit; in a previous blog post, we apologized[1] pretty frankly to everyone involved in this discussion. I'll admit that we didn't list him by name, but neither did we list the other handful of folks involved. We should have. In turn, Casey rightly did not acknowledge it except to tell his followers that it was not a real a…

> I just don't know what else he's asking for here. Credit? Us to die screaming? ... We get it, Microsoft sucks, we should all be fired, rah rah rah.

Someone is upset and venting. This comment comes across to me as "Ugh we already said the right words. Their distress is so inconvenient to me, why isn't it stopping?"

EDIT: Typically in this community we denote when a comment has been edited to change a critical piece of the message...

I'm detecting very little genuine authentic empathy

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#76

Post by lemper »

DHowett wrote: post #30

Another day, another Casey post dunking on my team. Hi! This tweet misses the mark only a little bit; in a previous blog post, we apologized[1] pretty frankly to everyone involved in this discussion. I'll admit that we didn't list him by name, but neither did we list the other handful of folks involved. We should have. In turn, Casey rightly did not acknowledge it except to tell his followers that it was not a real a…

Aight, bud. When I was a kid, my parents taught me how to apologise. first, I have to acknowledge what I did wrong. Then, I have to actually say the word ('sorry', if you don't know) to the person I wronged. finally, I need to offer some way forward. don't know how your team works, but I hope at least you (as a team) are mature enough to actually apologise in a clear cut manner.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#77

Post by Longhanks »

sirbranedamuj wrote: post #67
ddalex wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> except to note that it was not an apology at all. Ctrl-F there doesn't show a single "sorry" in the text. Or "Casey" for that matter. Why is it so difficult to say: "Casey, we are sorry, you were right and we were mistaken.". Instead there is a nebulous ~extended a branch to community and hope to accept our apology~ (paraphrasing) without offering an apology in the first place.

try looking for the word "apology" edit: > We know we have so much more to learn, but we hope that you will accept our apology and understand we’re humans behind this product with a capability and willingness to learn from our past mistakes. If someone said that to me, I would say "oh ok, no problem dude" and move on with my life. Not even defending the microsoft guy, I have zero skin in the game and couldn't care le…

Sticking the word "apology" on a letter does not make it an apology.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#78

Post by curiousgal »

HL33tibCe7 wrote: post #72
DHowett wrote: post #30

Another day, another Casey post dunking on my team. Hi! This tweet misses the mark only a little bit; in a previous blog post, we apologized[1] pretty frankly to everyone involved in this discussion. I'll admit that we didn't list him by name, but neither did we list the other handful of folks involved. We should have. In turn, Casey rightly did not acknowledge it except to tell his followers that it was not a real a…

I’m kind of in awe by the unprofessionalism of this response. In an era of incessant corporate PR, it’s somewhat refreshing lol.

Chastising devs who address issues directly is a great way to make sure canned PR responses is all we get.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#79

Post by QuikAccount »

Anyone who knows anything about Casey Muratori knows that nice and humble are not usually words associated with him. That is not to say the devs he is calling out are in the right. Frankly, I just see a bunch of combative assholes arguing with each other.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#80

Post by grepfru_it »

eric_b wrote: post #60
DHowett wrote: post #30

Another day, another Casey post dunking on my team. Hi! This tweet misses the mark only a little bit; in a previous blog post, we apologized[1] pretty frankly to everyone involved in this discussion. I'll admit that we didn't list him by name, but neither did we list the other handful of folks involved. We should have. In turn, Casey rightly did not acknowledge it except to tell his followers that it was not a real a…

This kind of tone really doesn't engender sympathy: > We get it, Microsoft sucks, we should all be fired, rah rah rah. > I just don't know what else he's asking for here. Credit? Us to die screaming? The blog post is matter-of-fact, and Casey is right: however, he said himself that it was trivial to do this. Is it not acceptable that we use the same language? Your "apology" really is anything but. If anything you and…

This is Microsoft culture spilling into the real world. There were several times when I pointed out a fix for a flaw or problem we were suffering from and was mocked and told it’s a silly idea that I shouldn’t be wasting time on. Fast forward 1-3 months later and that same person is singing the praises for the same idea someone else “came up with”. Except it was me shopping my idea around. Seeing the tweet and the thread makes me realize this is systemic to MSFT as an org (who now is the champion and host for all major open source organizations)
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