Elon Musk wants his bust back!
$35 sculpture found at an Austin Goodwill was looted from a museum during WWII
131–140 of 281 posts
Re: $35 sculpture found at an Austin Goodwill was looted from a museum during WWII
#132> She was in possession of a looted piece of ancient art. She couldn't keep it. I don't understand. Museums in the West are full of looted ancient art [1]. Why are they allowed to keep it, but this woman cannot keep this one item? [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/16/learning/should-museums-r...
I read it more like her morals prevented her from keeping/selling it, not that some outside entity was preventing her from keeping it. I sometimes say "I can't have that" to a food item I'm physically capable of eating but my moral framework precludes me from eating.
My reading might be wrong.
Re: $35 sculpture found at an Austin Goodwill was looted from a museum during WWII
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Sound about right? Yup, with the added bit: If you're not claiming that A is like B, then what's the point of you bringing up A to the discussion, at all?
When an object is stolen from a cache which was otherwise destroyed, 1) that is by definition a statistical anomaly, and 2) it may contain information from a time/place that is otherwise irrecoverable, which could make it valuable. Between these two facts, I think it would be way weirder if everyone quietly ignored the historical record of a specific artifact just because it was stolen. Imagine walking through a muse…
I feel like there's some misunderstanding here. I am not at all advocating that the fact that objects had been stolen be suppressed. I'm advocating for the explicit opposite. What I am, however, saying, is that I find it odd that museums are allowed to keep these stolen artefacts, while the woman in the OP was not.
Re: $35 sculpture found at an Austin Goodwill was looted from a museum during WWII
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can I recommend a podcast called 'Stuff the British Stole' by Marc Fenell (aka 'That Movie ... Guy'). It looks at exactly this, including situations where an artefact only exists _because_ it was stolen. http://www.marcfennell.com/stolen (Sorry I couldn't find the RSS feed)
The issue of "this is a convenient thing to think if you want to feel less bad about stuff being stolen" aside, it's worth considering that a world in which these things weren't stolen might also be a world where colonialism didn't run rampant throughout the world and the "destruction" they were saved from may have been a consequence of that colonialism. Anyways, I think to some extent our civilization is descending…
Kids these days. If they’re not addicted to novelty and the social media algorithm, they’re freebasing historical preservation. I’m honestly not sure how you square the circle between obviously consumerist trends like fast fashion and mass-produced “collectibles” with fetishization of preservation and franchise-based popular culture. It kind of seems like different people like different stuff?
Of course if you’re talking about architecture, there’s lots of fetishization of the not-very-old stuff from last century, because They don’t want you to know that we lost the building techniques of the Tartarian Empire. Or something.
Re: $35 sculpture found at an Austin Goodwill was looted from a museum during WWII
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
So to sum it up this exchange: Person1: A You: This sounds like B, which is fallacious. Person2: A You: Again...this sounds like B, which is fallacious. Me: No one is claiming B You: I never said anyone claimed B. I said this sounds like B. Sound about right?
> Sound about right? Yup, with the added bit: If you're not claiming that A is like B, then what's the point of you bringing up A to the discussion, at all?
Guys, what about C?
Re: $35 sculpture found at an Austin Goodwill was looted from a museum during WWII
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
When an object is stolen from a cache which was otherwise destroyed, 1) that is by definition a statistical anomaly, and 2) it may contain information from a time/place that is otherwise irrecoverable, which could make it valuable. Between these two facts, I think it would be way weirder if everyone quietly ignored the historical record of a specific artifact just because it was stolen. Imagine walking through a muse…
I feel like there's some misunderstanding here. I am not at all advocating that the fact that objects had been stolen be suppressed. I'm advocating for the explicit opposite. What I am, however, saying, is that I find it odd that museums are allowed to keep these stolen artefacts, while the woman in the OP was not.
Can I recommend a podcast called 'Stuff the British Stole' by Marc Fenell (aka 'That Movie ... Guy'). It looks at exactly this, including situations where an artefact only exists _because_ it was stolen.
http://www.marcfennell.com/stolen (Sorry I couldn't find the RSS feed)
Re: $35 sculpture found at an Austin Goodwill was looted from a museum during WWII
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not committing theft, or returning shit you stole, is considered "woke" now?
It's not shit you stole, not even shit your ancestors stole, it's shit someone who once occupied the same territory that you now occupy stole during a state of war. I think for the same reason we have a Statute of Limitations on property crimes, you shouldn't have to return anything. Returning it would be very woke indeed.
What does "woke" mean in this context?
Re: $35 sculpture found at an Austin Goodwill was looted from a museum during WWII
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
Museums shouldn't be full of looted treasures, museums should be full of treasures of the culture who built the museum. It is an injustice that any significant artifact is not in the custodianship of the culture it belongs to and when the infrastructure is in place to preserve the items, they should be returned to the community they came from.
To what modern-day culture do Roman artifacts belong?
Which part of Rome? It depends. It doesn't make sense to send the Roman baths in England back to Italy for example.
Re: $35 sculpture found at an Austin Goodwill was looted from a museum during WWII
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can I recommend a podcast called 'Stuff the British Stole' by Marc Fenell (aka 'That Movie ... Guy'). It looks at exactly this, including situations where an artefact only exists _because_ it was stolen. http://www.marcfennell.com/stolen (Sorry I couldn't find the RSS feed)
Links: PODCAST MAIN PAGE: https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/stuff-the-brit... RSS FEED: https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/stuff-the-brit...
Ah thankyou I was looking on his page and could only see Spotify/Apple Podcasts
Re: $35 sculpture found at an Austin Goodwill was looted from a museum during WWII
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
The issue of "this is a convenient thing to think if you want to feel less bad about stuff being stolen" aside, it's worth considering that a world in which these things weren't stolen might also be a world where colonialism didn't run rampant throughout the world and the "destruction" they were saved from may have been a consequence of that colonialism. Anyways, I think to some extent our civilization is descending…
Kids these days. If they’re not addicted to novelty and the social media algorithm, they’re freebasing historical preservation. I’m honestly not sure how you square the circle between obviously consumerist trends like fast fashion and mass-produced “collectibles” with fetishization of preservation and franchise-based popular culture. It kind of seems like different people like different stuff? Of course if you’re tal…
We should upload historical artifacts to the Blockchain and they will live forever as NFTs.
Problem solved