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The original “Bambi”

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Re: The original “Bambi”

#181
post #153

I recall something Stanley Kubrick said about Bambi being traumatizing: I saw Mary Poppins three times, because of my children, and I like Julie Andrews so much that I enjoyed seeing it three times. I thought it was a charming film. I wouldn’t want to make it, but … Children’s films are an area that should not just be left to the Disney Studios, who I don’t think really make very good children’s films. I’m talking ab…

I think as adults we downplay how difficult first experiences can be, and so I don't think we get that the stories of loss and struggle in kids movies are speaking to them about real problems they either already have or will soon.

Miyazaki has for some people become an alternative to Disney, but his work is full of Dumbo and Bambi moments. The difference is that in his work, the girl (and it is almost always a girl protagonist) is often substantially responsible for saving themselves, by reasonable means. They are not rescued by a boy or by deux ex machina.

Even in My Neighbor Totoro, which is almost but not quite an exception to this rule, the youngest (who is a main character, but not the main character) is saved by a magic bus. However, the main character initiates this rescue by digging deep and calling on resources she might not have thought to exploit. She asks for help from the most powerful person she knows and she gets it. She has to ask, and the terms of the rescue are very defined. Nobody white-knights her, nobody swoops in and reads her mind.

But the main struggle in that story is not a lost child. It is Death. And this resolves itself rather than being resolved by the characters, not through a miracle, but by discovering that the children don't know the situation and have invented a story that is much scarier than reality. In the end most of their fears are unfounded, and while life won't be everything they hoped, it's going to be much better than their internal catastrophizing.

Re: The original “Bambi”

#182
Finding Nemo also has a sad beginning. And the beginning of Up is both sad and sobering. But none of those I see as traumatising. On the other hand, The little prince basically sells suicide to kids. And all the teachers always praise this book and force kids to read it while obviously the book is not written for children.

Re: The original “Bambi”

#183
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the Animal Farm to my below K12 kids on one sitting and they were hooked. Kids needs scary stories in a safe environment. This will help them process these thoughts and prepare them for the inevitable trauma they will face at some point in their life. Animal Farm is also not a bleak read but also fun as you can do all the animal voices with their characteristic animal sounds.

Stories don't prepare kids for trauma, and I don't think there's any real evidence in support of that idea. I would wager a large sum that a child who has heard scary stories is not more likely to better handle, say, the loss of an immediate family member, than a child who has only heard happy stories about unicorns, rainbows, and friendly interactions.

I was generally chasing the thought that reading to your kids is always good for them. Even scary stories, as long as they are don't cause too much anxiety.

By trauma I was not implying "the worst thing that can happen to a person" - just bad things in general which will happen anyway. From my personal experience strategies and coping mechanisms inspired by stories may provide true insights and help in formulating actionable strategies in novel situations. But I can't prove it as other pointed out.

My intent was not to claim terrifying stories will inoculate a person from terror, despair, loss or anguish.

Re: The original “Bambi”

#184
post #6

Yes, Bambi is an utterly depressing story. Most original material Disney adapted was bleakier and more grisly than the adaptation. Most of the tales collected by brothers Grimm would today be horror stories. (Did you know that Cinderella's evil stepsisters had their toes and heels cut off so they could fit in the slippers? Or that the ravens pecked their eyes as punishment? Or that Maleficent ends up in a boiling cau…

Trying to imagine the boiling cauldron full of vipers. Were they magical vipers that could live in boiling water? Would Maleficent really be able to feel any snake bites as she was being boiled alive? Huge plot hole. 17th century writers didn't think this through.

Yea, I wasn't sure if this was water or oil with resistant high temperature vipers. Or someone smashed up vipers and boiled it, to be painful and extra gross?

Or both, where vipers were boiled, and new vipers were constantly being added to bite, then turn into boiling viper soup themselves.

IDK about plot hole, I assume the both method will get the job done. But, I do question the efficiency and practicality.

Re: The original “Bambi”

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't be afraid, they're wrong.

List a single shred of scientific evidence showing that kids who are exposed to stories with similar themes to traumatic events they experience in real life are more likely the have better outcomes. Be afraid to call someone wrong without more than just-so stories and anecdotes.

Unapologetically, no

Re: The original “Bambi”

#186

If we're talking about bleaker topics in older Disney works, I'll ask you to take a moment and consider the entire premise of _Dumbo_ (1939). Why are the other elephants scandalized by the baby elephant with the big ears, asking what Mr. Jumbo would think? Why did they mean, just a few moments earlier when they said elephants are "a proud race "? Why would they shun him, declaring that he is not one of their kind? ..…

With all of the elements in Dumbo directly from Minstrel Shows (black face, white face/Irish stereotypes) I think it's incredible that Dumbo isn't already in the same "Never to Reopen" Vault with Song of the South.

Oh, and Song of the Roustabouts is something too.

"We work all day, we work all night / we never learn to read or write / we're happy hearted roustabouts!!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P75mur1xF7U

But the whole premise of "the mixed race kid gets all the bullying" is a reflection of a pretty bleak society, beyond any of these specific depictions.

Re: The original “Bambi”

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try looking on youtube for a version of "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" that ends with the boy being properly eaten. They've all been changed to have narrow-escape happy endings, wholly destroying the point of the narrative.

One could argue that Abraham and his son was the original narrow escape happy ending

One could argue that in the original, he didn't escape either. "The text bears no specific mark of being a polemic against child sacrifice."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binding_of_Isaac#Possible_chil...

Re: The original “Bambi”

#188
post #6

Yes, Bambi is an utterly depressing story. Most original material Disney adapted was bleakier and more grisly than the adaptation. Most of the tales collected by brothers Grimm would today be horror stories. (Did you know that Cinderella's evil stepsisters had their toes and heels cut off so they could fit in the slippers? Or that the ravens pecked their eyes as punishment? Or that Maleficent ends up in a boiling cau…

I think that Bambi is something of a war movie; look at the forest fire scene, there is fire everywhere, it must have been inspired by bombing raids during the battle of Britain. I wonder if some of the artists had first hand experience of these events.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQrqhdU99Ws

Also the father commands his son 'you must get up'; he acts like a commander.

Re: The original “Bambi”

#189

For some reason I got my hands on George Orwell's "Animal Farm" at a very young age, as it looked like a kid's book. That's a fairly bleak book, for example when the pigs sell the draft horse to the glue factory, but only the goat (whose only friend is the horse) knows what's going on. Watership Down is another good one, the character of the Black Rabbit of Inle (the Grim Reaper of rabbitkind) was memorable. However…

Reminds me of all the adults freaking out about kids being traumatized by wearing masks. Kids don’t care. For them it was like putting on pants. Not a big deal unless the adults around them make it into a big deal.
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