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Apple, Google and Microsoft Commit to Expanded Support for FIDO Standard

fidoalliance.org

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Re: Apple, Google and Microsoft Commit to Expanded Support for FIDO Standard

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to avoid having to fetch my backup key every time I want to setup a new account. The backup key is kept offsite and thus inconvenient. It's offsite because that protects me from fire or other such catastrophic events. This is what keeps me preferring password based security because I can backup my encrypted password database offsite with ease. Everything else provides hard path to recovery.

> I want to avoid having to fetch my backup key every time I want to setup a new account. The backup key is kept offsite and thus inconvenient. As stated, you can have as many backup keys as you like. Thus you are not limited to two keys. Buy one more key. Keep one off-site and two on-prem. Rotate them once in a while to keep the off-site one fresh.

> As stated, you can have as many backup keys as you like.

That does not solve anything unless the backup keys are enrolled to each and every one of the services you use. Adding more backup keys and storing them more and more securely just makes it harder to be sure that you've enrolled them all to the latest service.

This is not an issue if users are explicitly allowed to enroll "virtual" soft authenticators that they can back up and restore as they see fit, but that's an additional requirement that comes at some compromise, since some services might instead want to ensure that you're enrolling a non-cloneable credential. (E.g. your physical bank or non-remote employer, that can easily verify your identity via additional means if needed to restore your access.) The WebAuthn spec allows for both models.

Re: Apple, Google and Microsoft Commit to Expanded Support for FIDO Standard

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to avoid having to fetch my backup key every time I want to setup a new account. The backup key is kept offsite and thus inconvenient. It's offsite because that protects me from fire or other such catastrophic events. This is what keeps me preferring password based security because I can backup my encrypted password database offsite with ease. Everything else provides hard path to recovery.

> I want to avoid having to fetch my backup key every time I want to setup a new account. The backup key is kept offsite and thus inconvenient. As stated, you can have as many backup keys as you like. Thus you are not limited to two keys. Buy one more key. Keep one off-site and two on-prem. Rotate them once in a while to keep the off-site one fresh.

I think their point is that they don't want to have the window of vulnerability (to loss) when they have added a new account but haven't yet rotated their off-site key?

That said, the real answer is that FIDO keys can be synced by e.g. Apple (as described in more detail here: https://www.wired.com/story/fido-alliance-ios-android-passwo...). So you can potentially just make your offsite backup be a hardware key that gets you into your iCloud keychain, and (if you are willing to trust Apple) use your iCloud for backing up all your other accounts' keys.

Re: Apple, Google and Microsoft Commit to Expanded Support for FIDO Standard

#203
post #192

Does this provide any benefit over a (properly used) password manager? I’d be happy with just: - an “alphabet”, “minlength” and “maxlength” attributes on password fields so password managers generate perfect passwords every time - a well-known URI for password managers to do zero-touch password rotation. - actual elements for login components to close the confused deputy attack for password managers. All these things…

A keylogger can take my password but a Yubikey can not be copied.

Re: Apple, Google and Microsoft Commit to Expanded Support for FIDO Standard

#204

Reading through the threads here: If the HN can't articulate FIDO and differences between it and the now decades old password model to each other, I think regular jack-offs are going to have trouble. People have the mental model that their secret is stored in their gray matter/post-it note/password manager, and now you're telling them it's in their phone, and somewhat related to the phone's security model, or maybe a…

[deleted]

Re: Apple, Google and Microsoft Commit to Expanded Support for FIDO Standard

#205
post #39
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds to be like we're replacing the username and the password, i.e. something you know with username and your phone, i.e. something you have . It sounds like it's still a one factor authentication system, but different.

Follow-up dumb questions: - so what happens if you don't have your phone at time of login? - if I enroll on iPhone, is my identity forever tied to Apple or can it be migrated to Android if I ever wanted to change platforms? - Can Apple/Google/Microsoft ever block/ban my account, preventing me from logging into my bank, etc that use FIDO login?

> Can Apple/Google/Microsoft ever block/ban my account, preventing me from logging into my bank, etc

If you don't accept their 10,000 word ever-changing terms of use, and if don't let them check for the marks on your forehead or right hand, then yes, you won't be able to buy or sell.

Re: Apple, Google and Microsoft Commit to Expanded Support for FIDO Standard

#206
post #154
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just register 2-3 keys. It's not so bad.

That's what I do. I have a nano Yubikey installed in each of my computers. Plus a Yubikey on my keychain. I register all of them with each account. All of the accounts require username / passowrd and the Yubikey. I'm not willing to not have a password.

I think this is the best approach, the one mobile key allows you to add your other devices as you use them so it's not adding a ton of overhead.

Re: Apple, Google and Microsoft Commit to Expanded Support for FIDO Standard

#207

Reading through the threads here: If the HN can't articulate FIDO and differences between it and the now decades old password model to each other, I think regular jack-offs are going to have trouble. People have the mental model that their secret is stored in their gray matter/post-it note/password manager, and now you're telling them it's in their phone, and somewhat related to the phone's security model, or maybe a…

Unrelated to what you wrote, but it is actually jagoff or jag-off. It is not related to jacking off.

Re: Apple, Google and Microsoft Commit to Expanded Support for FIDO Standard

#208

I've resisted switching to a hardware key because I know that I'm going to break it, and that seems like a huge pain in the ass. I really want to be able to make a couple of backup keys, or maybe put another way, I want to be able to put the private key on the device myself, I don't necessarily care that the key is generated on the device and never leaves the device. I don't care if that slightly reduces my security…

This announcement is primarily not about hardware keys, right?

Re: Apple, Google and Microsoft Commit to Expanded Support for FIDO Standard

#210
post #21

Dumb question: why are biometrics being used to replace the password , shouldn't the biometric replace the username ?

The biometrics don't authenticate you to the remote service. They authenticate you to the device that has the keys that authenticate you to the remote service.

Biometrics are a convenient replacement for a screen lock pattern/PIN, but not a necessary one, of course.

https://www.wired.com/story/fido-alliance-ios-android-passwo... is a good explainer.

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