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The original “Bambi”

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Re: The original “Bambi”

#91

Post by bsenftner »

photochemsyn wrote: post #64

For some reason I got my hands on George Orwell's "Animal Farm" at a very young age, as it looked like a kid's book. That's a fairly bleak book, for example when the pigs sell the draft horse to the glue factory, but only the goat (whose only friend is the horse) knows what's going on. Watership Down is another good one, the character of the Black Rabbit of Inle (the Grim Reaper of rabbitkind) was memorable. However…

I was a fat, stuttering early elementary kid, so I read a lot to avoid the cruel other kids. To the degree my 4th grade teacher would no longer allow me to do book reports for a grade using children's or teen books any longer. She pointed me at the literature classics and said only those were grade worthy at my reading skill.

The right there was on of the most instrumental decisions of my life.

By 5th grade I'd read the entire high school literature section. I joined an adult book readers club to better understand what I was reading. Even the adults in my club agreed an adult life is continual situational ignorance, misunderstood tragedy, betrayal by those close to you, and servitude to the powerful. I no longer believe adult life is quite so harsh, but that attitude prepared me far better than my peers. I've spent a good amount of time talking down people ready to quit everything. Thankfully, I can reference some fantastic hopeful passages, and they have not failed such situations yet.

Re: The original “Bambi”

#92

Post by stickfigure »

jeroenhd wrote: post #54
BeFlatXIII wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC, many of the most popular fairy tales give happy endings by pure luck and happenstance. Catch a fish with a magic ring, etc…. The ones with moral lessons are too on-the-nose to be enjoyable.

The most popular fairy tales also have been modified to be more kid friendly. Nobody saved Little Red Riding Hood. Sleeping Beauty wasn't kissed, she was raped in her sleep and gave birth; it was her child sucking the needle out of her finger that woke her up. These used to be more than just stories for kids, but modern fairy tales are rarely ever told to an adult audience anymore. For many fairy tales, the happy end…

Try looking on youtube for a version of "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" that ends with the boy being properly eaten. They've all been changed to have narrow-escape happy endings, wholly destroying the point of the narrative.

Re: The original “Bambi”

#93

Post by watwut »

jeroenhd wrote: post #54
BeFlatXIII wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC, many of the most popular fairy tales give happy endings by pure luck and happenstance. Catch a fish with a magic ring, etc…. The ones with moral lessons are too on-the-nose to be enjoyable.

The most popular fairy tales also have been modified to be more kid friendly. Nobody saved Little Red Riding Hood. Sleeping Beauty wasn't kissed, she was raped in her sleep and gave birth; it was her child sucking the needle out of her finger that woke her up. These used to be more than just stories for kids, but modern fairy tales are rarely ever told to an adult audience anymore. For many fairy tales, the happy end…

I think the popular mistake is to assume that every story in folklore collection must be for children and we must be able to derive some moral message out of it. This was time before TV and youtube. Adults told each other stories meant for adults and kids might or might not listen.

Re: The original “Bambi”

#94

Post by NortySpock »

bsenftner wrote: post #91
photochemsyn wrote: post #64

For some reason I got my hands on George Orwell's "Animal Farm" at a very young age, as it looked like a kid's book. That's a fairly bleak book, for example when the pigs sell the draft horse to the glue factory, but only the goat (whose only friend is the horse) knows what's going on. Watership Down is another good one, the character of the Black Rabbit of Inle (the Grim Reaper of rabbitkind) was memorable. However…

I was a fat, stuttering early elementary kid, so I read a lot to avoid the cruel other kids. To the degree my 4th grade teacher would no longer allow me to do book reports for a grade using children's or teen books any longer. She pointed me at the literature classics and said only those were grade worthy at my reading skill. The right there was on of the most instrumental decisions of my life. By 5th grade I'd read…

Can you share some hopeful passages, or some recommendations on what to read? I could use a bit of positivity in my life this month.

Re: The original “Bambi”

#95

Post by watwut »

christophilus wrote: post #7
sentrysapper wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life will give those hard lessons out for free - why build a curriculum for it?

That seems to be a key reason for fairy tales and such things— gentle preparation for life. It’s better to be equipped before battle rather than being tossed into the fray wholly unawares.

Imo, key reason for fairy tales is that both adults and children want to have fun. I watch movies and read books to have fun. Some of what my kids watch is written with proper moral lessons in it, but plenty of it is pure fun or with anti-lessons.

The people in the past had no youtube and no tv. They still wanted to have some fun.

Re: The original “Bambi”

#96

Post by r3trohack3r »

TaupeRanger wrote: post #90
fsloth wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the Animal Farm to my below K12 kids on one sitting and they were hooked. Kids needs scary stories in a safe environment. This will help them process these thoughts and prepare them for the inevitable trauma they will face at some point in their life. Animal Farm is also not a bleak read but also fun as you can do all the animal voices with their characteristic animal sounds.

Stories don't prepare kids for trauma, and I don't think there's any real evidence in support of that idea. I would wager a large sum that a child who has heard scary stories is not more likely to better handle, say, the loss of an immediate family member, than a child who has only heard happy stories about unicorns, rainbows, and friendly interactions.

Not commenting on whether you’re right or wrong, but that’s a bit of an apples and oranges comparison there - nearly to the point of arguing in bad faith.

A more apt comparison might be a story about urban war where the main character looses many immediate family members (and explores the grieving process against the backdrop of the war) - and how that would help a kid process the loss of an immediate family member.

Re: The original “Bambi”

#97

Post by tragictrash »

TaupeRanger wrote: post #90
fsloth wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the Animal Farm to my below K12 kids on one sitting and they were hooked. Kids needs scary stories in a safe environment. This will help them process these thoughts and prepare them for the inevitable trauma they will face at some point in their life. Animal Farm is also not a bleak read but also fun as you can do all the animal voices with their characteristic animal sounds.

Stories don't prepare kids for trauma, and I don't think there's any real evidence in support of that idea. I would wager a large sum that a child who has heard scary stories is not more likely to better handle, say, the loss of an immediate family member, than a child who has only heard happy stories about unicorns, rainbows, and friendly interactions.

Stories definitely do help kids and adults process trauma.

I'm not going to go searching for it because you can cherry pick anything off the internet, but it's well documented that scary stories in a safe space assist children with processing traumatic events.

Re: The original “Bambi”

#98

Post by tragictrash »

r3trohack3r wrote: post #96
TaupeRanger wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stories don't prepare kids for trauma, and I don't think there's any real evidence in support of that idea. I would wager a large sum that a child who has heard scary stories is not more likely to better handle, say, the loss of an immediate family member, than a child who has only heard happy stories about unicorns, rainbows, and friendly interactions.

Not commenting on whether you’re right or wrong, but that’s a bit of an apples and oranges comparison there - nearly to the point of arguing in bad faith. A more apt comparison might be a story about urban war where the main character looses many immediate family members (and explores the grieving process against the backdrop of the war) - and how that would help a kid process the loss of an immediate family member.

Don't be afraid, they're wrong.

Re: The original “Bambi”

#99

Post by kmote00 »

isolli wrote: post #70
senko wrote: post #6

Yes, Bambi is an utterly depressing story. Most original material Disney adapted was bleakier and more grisly than the adaptation. Most of the tales collected by brothers Grimm would today be horror stories. (Did you know that Cinderella's evil stepsisters had their toes and heels cut off so they could fit in the slippers? Or that the ravens pecked their eyes as punishment? Or that Maleficent ends up in a boiling cau…

Children's songs are also often cruel. "Il etait un petit navire" tells the story of a young sailor about to be eaten because the ship ran out of food. "Sur le pont du Nord" tells the story of a brother and a sister who ran off to a ball without their parents' approval and die when the bridge collapses. "Il etait une bergere" tells the story of a young shepherd who kills her mischievous cat in anger. These are exampl…

"London bridges falling down."

"Ring around the Rosie... and we all fall down" (refers to the Great Plague of London in 1665)

"Rockabye baby in the treetops" (eventually sent crashing to the ground by storm winds).

Re: The original “Bambi”

#100

Post by watwut »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #27
spanktheuser wrote: post #20

It wasn't the first horror film my children saw (they watched Jaws, Alien, and Stranger Things) but the most terrifying and traumatic experience they've seen was the shipwreck scene in the Black Stallion. If you want to frighten children, murder what they love while they watch: their parents and animals. Coincidence both Bambi and the Black Stallion were written during or in the immediate aftermath of world wars?

One thing I've really noticed is that a lot of people - children and adults both - have no qualms about depictions of violence and murder of people in media, but they get really squeamish when it's (cute) animals. I wonder what causes that, is it just a kind of desensitization? Or a built-in kind of justice that bad people dying is fine but innocent animals isn't?

There are movies that show violence against people in a way that hits and in a way that people react to. However, not in typical action/war/thriller story.

The context matters. The depictions of violence of people in media if typically very intentionally written in a way that does not make you feel too bad. The killed people rarely have personalities or matter. Modern media rarely kills characters that people had a chance to know or relate to. They are not cute and their deaths are sort of "clean".

The cute animals people are squeamish about are played up for cuteness, the owner is played up to be sad. It is all very intentionally made up to make you feel sad.

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