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The Google incentive mismatch: Problems with promotion-oriented cultures

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Re: The Google incentive mismatch: Problems with promotion-oriented cultures

#421
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't worked at apple, but I suspect that this is the result of only having Some companies like to spam new products, others like to perfect what they have.

Apple spent ~22B in R&D in 2021, but they definitely have large-scale decision makers expecting near-perfection on anything considered for released, probably before they even push it to DVT.

R&D spending at FAAMG includes all software development work, regardless of whether it's research.

Re: The Google incentive mismatch: Problems with promotion-oriented cultures

#422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds you had bottleneck in product management pipeline. Product managers should generate enough creative and significant features to justify stream of large projects.

Meanwhile at Apple, there aren't product managers and the business doesn't create an expanding stream of new products.

Sorry, can't comment on this, never owned anything from Apple :)

Re: The Google incentive mismatch: Problems with promotion-oriented cultures

#423

Thoughts on the following idea? I think Google's incentives have a problem similar to the incentives of any other company: It's open-ended, and possible to game everything. Whether promotions are based on the "hard problems" solved by your work, or the revenue it generates for the company -- or hell, even the software quality/performance -- this will always cause drama, people will get mad and leave. Any choice will…

I propose changing the promotion criteria every year so they can't be predicted.

Re: The Google incentive mismatch: Problems with promotion-oriented cultures

#424
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There was nowhere near enough big projects to get everyone the evidence they needed for promotions. Would the goal be to promote everyone ? Who's going to do the work they all used to do?

It's a retention issue. If people don't level up fast enough and get raises they'll leave for another company.

This is underlying problem with promotion culture, I am in a big financial firm, my whole team wants to get promoted every 1-1.5 year. I feel people are not really learning how to write and manage software systems properly due to this.

Re: The Google incentive mismatch: Problems with promotion-oriented cultures

#426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and it doesn't stop there: L3: $192,064 L4: $268,758 L5: $358,423 L6: $502,465 (!) https://www.levels.fyi/

Why dont people work for themselves, you can earn alot lot more, like over 20x more!?!

You might be forgetting self-employment tax there?

Re: The Google incentive mismatch: Problems with promotion-oriented cultures

#427

serious question here - how does Apple deal with this problem ? Apple also survives on big bang releases - the next iphone, macbook pro, etc etc. But also is famous for not abandoning old phones. iphone 6 was still receiving updates in Dec 2021. so how does Apple manage this dichotomy ? or is the company level yearly release completely wipe out the need for individual "hard problem" solving ?

Traditionally they made it ungameable by making it completely opaque to the point where you have no input on promotions and they may not even tell you there is something called promotions.

Re: The Google incentive mismatch: Problems with promotion-oriented cultures

#428
post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original contention was that women held out for higher-status men, leading to selection pressure such that men evolved to be more competitive. If women are only very recently even able to be more selective, then I don’t see how all this is supposed to work. Is there even any evidence that modern women are more “choosy” than men? You’d have an hypothesis like: among married 40-something women, the distribution of…

Every bit of both historical and contemporary data we have contradicts what you and GP say.

Great. Where can I find this data?

Re: The Google incentive mismatch: Problems with promotion-oriented cultures

#429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As stated in TFA and throughout this thread, moving the burden to the ICs means they will be incentivized to focus on Promo Packet instead of real work. No offense intended, but in your comment it comes off a bit selfish and bears the hallmarks of a classic archetype of terrible manager. I'd never willingly work for you. Being in management isn't for everyone, it's a people-focused domain. The whole job is about supp…

It's hard to believe that someone can write these sentences based solely on the OP's statement. You have no idea who this person is.

Some people think that if they look down hard enough at someone else, they can lift themselves up. Especially if that 'someone else' is someone clearly high-status by an agreed standard (which 'senior software engineer at Google' undoubtedly is, on this forum, no matter what we tell ourselves).

So the GP comes on here, sharing a perfectly nice and candid opinion, and our friend sees the chance of a lifetime ("terrible manager", "would never work under you", "management isn't for everyone", "find a higher-quality organisation", etc). Simples.

Re: The Google incentive mismatch: Problems with promotion-oriented cultures

#430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no single correct take, and I appreciate you filling in more of your perspective on the matter. I'd be curious to understand what exactly you feel my points were, and why you think differently. I can't help but feel like I must be missing something or misunderstanding your comment. Fortunately we're unlikely to ever collide in real life :). Again, I mean no disrespect. Genuinely would like to understand your…

Sure - >> moving the burden to the ICs means they will be incentivized to focus on Promo Packet instead of real work Such has not been the case. In fact, I've had to repeatedly remind people to add things to their promo packet. The point is that documenting successes as they happen means they get to own their own visibility; I've walked into multiple teams where people chafed at being passed over, because their past…

Wow, what a classy af response. You hiring?
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