Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's this box going to do?
I was thinking a router that’s connected to Cloudflare network. Every device that connects to it is automatically on Cloudflare tunnels or Tailscale like VPN. And generally do the routing stuff better than ubiquity products (can manage your home router through their control panel from anywhere). Remote devices would need a client installed on it to access the VPN, of course.
Tailscale raises $100M
251–260 of 468 posts
Re: Tailscale raises $100M
#252[dead]
Re: Tailscale raises $100M
#253I have heard of but never really looked in to Tailscale until today. I'm not impressed. "Fixing the Internet" is not done by layering more private network garbage on top of it. Their claim[0] that after you install Tailscale on all your devices: "This final configuration is called 'zero trust networking',” is pretty interesting. It seems this would be more like having a trusted internal network (sure it is overlaid o…
> Get rules/laws implemented that prohibit that You know this does not work in the real world right?
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Re: Tailscale raises $100M
#254Earlier quoted context omitted.
Indeed, this is why I won't use it either. I settled on Slack's Nebula [0] instead of wireguard because it handles direct p2p communication between nodes automatically. There also exists an open source implementation of the tailscale control server [1] that you could self host. [0] https://github.com/slackhq/nebula [1] https://github.com/juanfont/headscale
(Nebula coauthor here) People sometimes ask me to describe the differences between Nebula and Tailscale. One of the most important relates to performance and scale. Nebula can handle the amount of internal network traffic and scalability of nodes (100k+ nodes, constant churn) required on a large network like Slack's, but Tailscale cannot. Tailscale's performance is fine for many situations, but not suitable for infra…
See, I have seen promotions of Tailscale and Zerotier before, but this is the first I have heard of Nebula. If with Nebula I am not beholden to some internet behemoth who may cancel my authentication without notice, I am motivated to try it.
Re: Tailscale raises $100M
#255Funding scares me. It bring sharks onboard who do not share the same vision. They will demand revenue and ROI above all else. I like Tailscale but I hate this business model down to the core (Netlify as an example). Tailscale was doing fine as it was, capable people there already. It quickly became an "exit type of business", too quickly. These companies usually bring something really easy to use, let people onboard…
Tailscale investor here. I can assure you we share the same vision with the founders.
> Tailscale investor here. I can assure you we share the same vision.
Outside of say, Garry Tan and Leo Polovets, who could be considered regulars, it’s rare that an investor shows up in the HN comments. Hi!
Your comment is reassuring, but the reality is that other investors will look at their portfolio companies, review the competitive landscape, then decide that they no longer share the vision, in the not too distant future.
Re: Tailscale raises $100M
#256Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s not really a competing product until they relaunch it with a heavy consumer focus and with some of the properties that Tailscale has, ie: avoiding going through the cloudflare CDN. But more to my point, cloudflare is definitely in a position to outcompete Tailscale, it’s just a couple tweaks and a marketing shift.
I don't think Tailscale will focus on the consumer market, I'd be very surprised at least if they did. I think they built a developer-friendly product to get mindshare and early adoptors, but eventually the real market for such such products is in the B2B space, i.e. implementing the "BeyondCorp" model of zero-trust networking. There's also a market for building cloud mesh services but I'm not sure if Tailscale is we…
They already (sort of) do [0] as they have a "Personal Pro" plan that's not too obvious - personally, I hope they expand to make it more cloud-native via a la carte pricing for those users as I'd pay an extra $x/month for an additional subnet router or three. And, IMO, it's a smart approach - those who are the targeted "Prosumer" might leverage this for their homelab and carry it over with them into the enterprise. I say that it's a smart approach because in my time at a vendor that was slinging security middle boxes - we used to give away our small form factor product to those homelab'ers for free. They'd take them home and see how much the solution could provide, they got comfortable with the UI, and they learned it for their own use cases. And then the path into an enterprise conversation held much less friction.
Re: Tailscale raises $100M
#257Earlier quoted context omitted.
The title of the article from Tailscale is "...to fix the Internet"... if it was "only" about "your own devices" then you are assuming they are thinking small.
You're assuming that they're thinking something completely outside of anything they've ever said, and something that nobody actually wants. Your assumption is the one that's out of left field, not mine.
You haven't proved me wrong, you just said I am wrong.
Re: Tailscale raises $100M
#258Earlier quoted context omitted.
A VPN is a Virtual Private Network. Those services you mentioned merely provide a secure tunnel to the same public Internet you'd have access without them, avoiding eavesdropping by your ISP or other intermediaries, whilst handing over that capability to the "VPN" provider. There is no private network anywhere in this case. An actual VPN provides you with a private network that just happens to workover of the public…
Sticking with Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VPN_service Saying that these services are "not VPNs" is unnecessary pedantry. Definitions evolve over time, and these services meet the common definition of a VPN.
If they start off as VPN but morph into something more (like Cloudflare, Google, etc...) then it really doesn't matter how you define them "today" if their goal as a company is to become something more/different.
Re: Tailscale raises $100M
#259I couldn't readily find any mention of any third-party security audits.
Compare that to the numerous audits a VPN like Mullvad has had - https://mullvad.net/en/blog/tag/audits/.
Re: Tailscale raises $100M
#260Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is kind of overstated. Even if everyone went IPv6 and gave every device a public IP address, pretty much every network would have a firewall that behaved just like NAT.
> Even if everyone went IPv6 and gave every device a public IP address, pretty much every network would have a firewall that behaved just like NAT. No, they do not behave just like NAT. With NAT you have two problems: * figuring out your address * firewall hole punching With IPv6 you already know your address and just give it to the peer you are communicating with. You then tell your firewall to allow connections fro…
> With IPv6 you already know your address and just give it to the peer you are communicating with. You then tell your firewall to allow connections from the address(:port) that the peer tells you. No STUN, no TURN, no ICE.
What about phone networks? (in the US providers block all incoming traffic.) Or other ISPs that block incoming traffic?
NAT has been used to address a fundamental problem of what traffic can be trusted. That's what Tailscale fixes.