>To put the market in perspective, there are VPNs that only work if [...] UDP isn’t blocked
isn't that true with WireGuard/Tailscale too?
Tailscale raises $100M
191–200 of 468 posts
Re: Tailscale raises $100M
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
(Tailscale engineer here) That's https://github.com/tailscale/tailscale/issues/1572 which we haven't given up on. It's just not done. We did it for macOS and we thought the same thing would've worked for iOS (they share ton of the same code) but it apparently didn't work. The mobile apps have been a low priority thus far. We just recently hired some people to work on them, though. The highest priority for them curren…
About the battery usage: what I can’t explain is that there’s a lot of background energy usage on iOS when Tailscale is running even when it’s not connected. If this was about heart beating, I would expect that to only happen when the client is connected. Also, in the battery stats, the background usage is there and tailscale is listed, but with - % of battery usage. However, when I force quit tailscale, all of the b…
A lot of it was because we were using the cell radio when wifi was available.
Have you tried 1.24.2 that's just as of yesterday on the App Store? It fixes one of the worst of the offenders (but not all yet).
In any case, we understand a lot of the problems now and plan to work on it soon.
Re: Tailscale raises $100M
#193Funding scares me. It bring sharks onboard who do not share the same vision. They will demand revenue and ROI above all else. I like Tailscale but I hate this business model down to the core (Netlify as an example). Tailscale was doing fine as it was, capable people there already. It quickly became an "exit type of business", too quickly.
These companies usually bring something really easy to use, let people onboard and modify their network/DNS/etc to hell until they get vendor stuck and then they squeeze every possible dollar out of their pockets. Once you're in, after days or weeks of fine tuning, after you managed to pollute your codebase with their configs and IP addresses, it's hard to get out.
I suspect those "free slots" will change soon ,but we won't see those types of graphs anywhere soon and be prepared to get charged for bandwidth and everything else possible.
Re: Tailscale raises $100M
#194Earlier quoted context omitted.
Indeed, this is why I won't use it either. I settled on Slack's Nebula [0] instead of wireguard because it handles direct p2p communication between nodes automatically. There also exists an open source implementation of the tailscale control server [1] that you could self host. [0] https://github.com/slackhq/nebula [1] https://github.com/juanfont/headscale
(Nebula coauthor here) People sometimes ask me to describe the differences between Nebula and Tailscale. One of the most important relates to performance and scale. Nebula can handle the amount of internal network traffic and scalability of nodes (100k+ nodes, constant churn) required on a large network like Slack's, but Tailscale cannot. Tailscale's performance is fine for many situations, but not suitable for infra…
> Fwiw, I even recommend Tailscale to friends who want to do things like connect to their Plex server or Synology or [other thing] at home remotely. It simplifies this kind of thing greatly and doesn't require you to set up any infrastructure you control directly, which can be a headache for folks who just want to reach a handful of computers/devices.
First thanks for working on Nebula! It's great.
Nebula seems to be about 95% there. The functionality it actually does provide once set up is really great. It's just missing the 5% that is arguably the most important for a huge number of people: a simple way to do the configuration management bits such as device enrollment, revocations, key rotations, that sort of thing.
If you are a home user, with a small network, the overhead of doing things manually is low, but you need to be patient and technical enough to read the docs and do it right initially. If you're a big enough organization I guess you can write your own tooling. But for any small shop or any non-technical home user this is not going to fly and you will bounce off it.
I don't know if the plan is to create a commercial offering for this side of the house (it would make sense...) but as far as I'm concerned, this is the only reason that Tailscale is so successful and Nebula is lesser known (despite Nebula's advantages in other ways that may be more relevant to technical users).
Re: Tailscale raises $100M
#195Tailscale has a fantastic product, I’ve been extremely happy from day one. If you’re waiting for a weekend to have a few hours to try out Tailscale, don’t, it takes 15 minutes to get every device you own up and running and talking. This is the lowest friction personal VPN to ever exist, and once you see how easy it is for your own devices, you’ll wish you had it at work. The biggest risk that this company has is that…
> a direct ring of trust with friends The vision you outlined is great, except it doesn't work. The trust assumptions are too high, and even a great product like Tailscale seems to rely completely on centralized identity providers (you have to choose Google, Microsoft, or Github on sign-in). Ultimately, if you want to maintain full control of your online identity and network, you'll probably need some of the decentra…
I feel like people are so concerned about infinite scaling that nobody ever tries to scale to 5 anymore.
I have a big collection of movies, and I’d like my mom-technical blue collar friends to be able to watch them. I trust them, and I have trusted communication channels with them. We exchange keys somehow.
With the sort of routing I’m describing, they could watch my movies and I wouldn’t have to have a public IP address. And I wouldn’t mind if their friends (that aren’t my friends) watch my movies, either, by forwarding through my friends. What’s the catch? This could work for that. How could I do this today?
I don’t have any ideological or moral problem with blockchains, I just think they suck at solving problems where the requirements for trust are low or met elsewhere.
edit: mom-technical was a typo of non-technical but I’m leaving it because it’s more accurate.
Re: Tailscale raises $100M
#196I was going to try TailScale but then it seemed the only option to do so as an individual was to login with a 3rd party cloud provider, which I in no way want tied into my networks. I gave up and just setup wireguard directly instead, I don't trust Tailscale either if that's their attitude towards privacy, it's permanently marred my vision of their product.
Not sure why everyone is hung up on this. You don't have to use a third party provider for auth. They support SAML and OIDC, and it is pretty easy to set up your own auth server. There are enough open source implementations out there you can use.
Re: Tailscale raises $100M
#197Earlier quoted context omitted.
They are absolutely VPNs. If you don't like my term "general purpose" that's fine, but they 100% fit the definition of VPN.
A VPN is a Virtual Private Network. Those services you mentioned merely provide a secure tunnel to the same public Internet you'd have access without them, avoiding eavesdropping by your ISP or other intermediaries, whilst handing over that capability to the "VPN" provider. There is no private network anywhere in this case. An actual VPN provides you with a private network that just happens to workover of the public…
Sticking with Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VPN_service
Saying that these services are "not VPNs" is unnecessary pedantry. Definitions evolve over time, and these services meet the common definition of a VPN.
Re: Tailscale raises $100M
#198Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well put, there is no moat. Corporate customers really don’t want yet another network infra if they have Cloudflare + ZTN offerings. Cloudflare, please make a box I can buy and stick it in the closet with a WAN connection. Routers suck, it’s time to reinvent them. Also please don’t make them look like goddamn spaceships.
What's this box going to do?
I was thinking a router that’s connected to Cloudflare network. Every device that connects to it is automatically on Cloudflare tunnels or Tailscale like VPN. And generally do the routing stuff better than ubiquity products (can manage your home router through their control panel from anywhere).
Remote devices would need a client installed on it to access the VPN, of course.
Re: Tailscale raises $100M
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
I...don't think it's faded. I could totally be wrong here, but I don't think they'd actually made a transition yet; the complaining you're talking about was over the 1Password 8 beta . That actually just went GA this week, and people were still upset. I get why they're doing it (or, at least, think I do), and I'm not angry enough to go get angry on Twitter, but I am going to avoid the upgrade for as long as I can. Th…
Honestly I haven't noticed and I use 1Password on all of my devices every day. I heard some grumblings about 1Password changing to electron months ago and just assumed that they already made the transition. In whatever case, I haven't heard a peep until this thread. I don't like electron in theory and the industry should collectively come up with a solution that incentivizes app developers away from electron rather t…
You might double check which version you’re on. Might still be on v7.
> the industry should collectively come up with a solution that incentivizes app developers away from electron rather than hoping they swim against the current of incentive.
They have the financial resources to build it in ~Rust but still chose electron. It’s a mind boggling decision.
Re: Tailscale raises $100M
#200I was going to try TailScale but then it seemed the only option to do so as an individual was to login with a 3rd party cloud provider, which I in no way want tied into my networks. I gave up and just setup wireguard directly instead, I don't trust Tailscale either if that's their attitude towards privacy, it's permanently marred my vision of their product.
What’s your concern, specifically? To me it sounds like understanding in detail how oauth works would make you feel much better about this.