Software ate the world, but didn't digest it quite properly, and now the world is in many ways broken.
I think some of the complexity stems from trying to make digital things that simply aren't or shouldn't be.
Ask HN: Have we screwed ourselves as software engineers?
31–40 of 430 posts
Re: Ask HN: Have we screwed ourselves as software engineers?
#32So, you have valid points, but...
1) some of these things (e.g. node, microservices) already peaked a few years back, being overapplied and now the pendulum is swinging the other way
2) others (e.g. Kubernetes, React, monorepo) were developed at large, profitable companies that others wish to emulate (or work at someday), so they find excuses to use them. This case takes longer to reach a point where things swing against it, because everyone wants to pretend their company is the size of FAANG or will be soon, but the same process of overapplication and backlash happens eventually
3) in the midst of all that noise, there are some new things which are in fact a good idea for most developers. I don't know Rust or Go, but perhaps they are examples of that.
The key for us as developers is, unless we wish to work at FAANG, try to spot (3) in the forest of (1) and (2), and don't let (justified) annoyance at (1) and (2) blind us to the fact that (3) is out there as well.
Re: Ask HN: Have we screwed ourselves as software engineers?
#33Yes, but it has very little to do with any of the things you mentioned. Software became so prevalent that it became a mantra, "Software is eating the world" but people in IT have little to no choice in what's put on the plate. They've been convinced that positions of responsibility and authority are bad and should be left to the MBA's. Eschewed most industry groups that provide some semblance of protection that nearly every other professional organization has adopted. Doctors, lawyers, actuaries, accountants, all have professional organizations that are powerful and provide some protections. I believe that most of the pathology that you see is a result of a push and pull between management and IT as people in IT seek those protections in other ways.
Just one example, Scala. First, I'm not criticizing the language itself. It has it's place, but what I saw was programmers trying to create a protected space that would provide higher bill rates. Java was everywhere and hiring a Java developer was easy. Scala was new and had steep enough learning curve that you could drastically shrink the candidate pool while at the same time selling the shiny new toy to management. They could create complex, arcane code that kept new developers from getting up to speed while providing the excuse that they were inferior developers and weren't smart enough to keep up. It didn't work for very long as management caught on that they weren't getting much other than higher labor costs. Go seems to be the latest incarnation of that while Rust is a bridge too far to sell to management.
So it's this back and forth, provide something to management that they can sell to their superiors something new. Management buys into it as long as they can get promoted before it inevitably blows up and the developers who sold it move on to new projects, rinse and repeat.
Re: Ask HN: Have we screwed ourselves as software engineers?
#34The way I look at it is: there are more tools in the toolbox than ever before. Which makes our judgement (the thing they really pay us for) even more important. Kubernetes, for example, is a specific solution to a specific problem. The solution is complex but so is the problem. If k8s give you the right trade-offs for your situation, then it’s not busy work.
Of course, there are plenty of project where judgement Is thrown out the window in favor of adding a buzzword to everyone’s resume. I’ve heard it called “promotion-based architecture”, as in you pick the technology most likely to get you promoted. (If that works, it says all sorts of not great things about your organization).
Regardless, I don’t think the availability of tools is the root problem. It’s and industry-wide lack of emphasis on identifying and understanding the problem first.
Re: Ask HN: Have we screwed ourselves as software engineers?
#35One hypothesis (but not a single answer) is that complexity creates jobs. Engineering something complex and clever creates job security and consulting hours. Fads, trends, and ideas come and go like the tide, and it makes the big wheel go around. Kubernetes, which 99% of developers have no use case for, is indeed “job security” for what could equally be achieving achieve with Unix and a few she’ll scripts. (I’m being…
This is an important point. Looking at open job reqs can give the impression that X is very successful, when the reality is that any organization using X has an explosion in how many developers they need, and also a high burnout rate in the ones they have. Plenty of other developers quietly and more-or-less-happily working with non-X, and you never see their job in the job boards.
Re: Ask HN: Have we screwed ourselves as software engineers?
#36I don’t think you’re wrong in your observation (though perhaps a bit hyperbolic in the doom) but I’m perplexed why you think there’s “no way out”.
Software is malleable, people are generally smart. It may take longer than you hope it does but things will shake out just fine as teams/companies are forced to look critically at their infra spend vs utilization and adjust accordingly.
Re: Ask HN: Have we screwed ourselves as software engineers?
#37This question is getting a lot of attention. As such, it is consuming our time. I’d suggest it can be improved and revised. Currently, it is rather vague. I suspect the author could take more time and make it clearer. There are a lot of interesting themes — it deserves to be unpacked and clarified.
True that, but perhaps asking the question and getting these answers is part of how that happens, and the end result is a longer-form blog post somewhere.
Re: Ask HN: Have we screwed ourselves as software engineers?
#38If you believe that's all there is to those ideas, maybe you need to step away and think about them for a while. Sure, there's going to be some resume padding happening in larger orgs. But all those ideas solve real problems too. I think you're just in a very negative space if you start with "Distributed systems" as something overly complicated. At some scale getting a bigger machine either doesn't make financial sen…
>> If you believe that's all there is to those ideas, maybe you need to step away and think about them for a while. Sure, there's going to be some resume padding happening in larger orgs. But all those ideas solve real problems too.
They do solve real problems. The question is whether or not they solve the problem at hand, and if they create other issues in doing so.
I was re-decking a back yard bridge with a friend and he brought a framing hammer. I'd never used one before and I always had a finishing hammer and didn't know the difference. I learned a new tool and even ran out and bought my own for the project, which worked fantastically well. It's still in my toolbox and hasn't been used since. You just don't use that thing to hang pictures on the wall because it may well f-- up the wall a bit. Using the right tool for a job is way more important than using a particular tool for any other reason.
Re: Ask HN: Have we screwed ourselves as software engineers?
#39In an inflationary environment, this is fine. Just wait when we have interest rates at 12%.
Re: Ask HN: Have we screwed ourselves as software engineers?
#40Why would there be no escape from it? Just do something else if you don't like the current state of affairs. No need to get all pearl-clutchy about it.