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Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

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Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#471

Post by sudosysgen »

TAKEMYMONEY wrote: post #429
sudosysgen wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite. Carbon fiber is a composite. Structural integrity is not one dimensional, and while carbon fiber frames are great in their intended loads, they are bad in puncture and abrasion, and that is inherent to carbon fiber. It is so much easier to wreck a carbon fiber frame than an alu frame. It just takes one pointy rock or one bad slide. Whereas an alu frame will only receive cosmetic damage

That's a nuanced point to draw, thank you; most of my wrecks have been head-on, or from the side. I can patch my fiber frame though, it's getting harder to "total" them nowadays imo. I've tried!

I see - I definitely haven't been keeping up that hard, so I may be surprised by recent improvements :)

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#472

Post by z2h-a6n »

323 wrote: post #399
z2h-a6n wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, do you have any sources with actual evidence that carbon fiber is prone to catastrophic failure in bike frames/components, particularly compared to aluminum? From my (rather limited) research, there seems to be plenty of speculation and anecdotes online about the fragility of CF, but not much actual evidence of rates of catastrophic failure. My impression (not based on expertise or much evidence) is…

> Now that use of the material, once reserved for high-end bikes, has become widespread in the bike industry, reports of accidents and mysterious failures are on the rise. > Reed and other experts in carbon fiber agree that any material can fail. Wrecks happen from faulty aluminum, steel, and even rock-hard titanium. The difference with carbon fiber is that it can be difficult to detect signs of damage that might sig…

I was hoping for some actual data. As I mentioned there's plenty of anecdata online, but I don't know if anyone has really studied this. The article you linked to suggests that nobody has done a systematic study.

As a counterpoint to the video you linked, I'm reminded of this video of Danny Macaskill having to work pretty hard to break a carbon rim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfjjiHGuHoc

> ... if one is not racing, is it really worth the extra risk for minor performance improvements?

It really depends on how much extra risk there is and how much the rider values the performance improvements. Without actual data about the (relative) risk of carbon fiber failure in bike components, we have to guess based on the information we have avaliable. Most of this seems to either be anecdotal, or coming from from interested parties, e.g. bike manufacturers, lawyers who make their living suing bike manufacturers, and journalists who are probably more interested in writing about something exciting happening than something exciting not happening. My impression is that the relative risk of of using carbon fiber in some (but perhaps not all) bike components is pretty small compared to the other risks involved in biking, and the performance improvements are big enough to be worth it for me, even though I don't race.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#473

Post by Ourgon »

yencabulator wrote: post #448
Ourgon wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree to most of the glued/soldered/planned obsolescence criticisms related to applethings I do feel the need to point out those "obsolete" macthings tend to run Linux just fine. I should know, writing this on a 'late 2009 27" iMac' which I got for free due to its video card being broken (which it is no longer, 8 minutes in the oven at 195°C is all it takes) running Debian. While it is also possible to get mo…

> Linux runs flawlessly Uhh, nope. NVidia and Broadcom all over.

Depends on which one you're using, mine contains a Radeon HD 4670. There is a lot of NVIDIA on the PCI bus but this does not seem to be an obstacle to the thing running flawlessly:

   00:00.0 Host bridge: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 Host Bridge (rev b1)
   00:00.1 RAM memory: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 Memory Controller (rev b1)
   00:03.0 ISA bridge: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 LPC Bridge (rev b3)
   00:03.1 RAM memory: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 Memory Controller (rev b1)
   00:03.2 SMBus: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 SMBus (rev b1)
   00:03.3 RAM memory: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 Memory Controller (rev b1)
   00:03.4 RAM memory: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 Memory Controller (rev b1)
   00:03.5 Co-processor: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 Co-processor (rev b1)
   00:04.0 USB controller: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 OHCI USB 1.1 Controller (rev b1)
   00:04.1 USB controller: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 EHCI USB 2.0 Controller (rev b1)
   00:06.0 USB controller: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 OHCI USB 1.1 Controller (rev b1)
   00:06.1 USB controller: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 EHCI USB 2.0 Controller (rev b1)
   00:08.0 Audio device: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 High Definition Audio (rev b1)
   00:09.0 PCI bridge: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 PCI Bridge (rev b1)
   00:0a.0 Ethernet controller: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 Ethernet (rev b1)
   00:0b.0 SATA controller: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 AHCI Controller (rev b1)
   00:0c.0 PCI bridge: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 PCI Express Bridge (rev b1)
   00:15.0 PCI bridge: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 PCI Express Bridge (rev b1)
   00:16.0 PCI bridge: NVIDIA Corporation MCP79 PCI Express Bridge (rev b1)
   02:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RV730/M96-XT [Mobility Radeon HD 4670]
   02:00.1 Audio device: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] RV710/730 HDMI Audio [Radeon HD 4000 series]
   03:00.0 Network controller: Qualcomm Atheros AR928X Wireless Network Adapter (PCI-Express) (rev 01)
   04:00.0 PCI bridge: Texas Instruments XIO2213A/B/XIO2221 PCI Express to PCI Bridge [Cheetah Express] (rev 01)
   05:00.0 FireWire (IEEE 1394): Texas Instruments XIO2213A/B/XIO2221 IEEE-1394b OHCI Controller [Cheetah Express] (rev 01)
There is some Broadcom as well - the Bluetooth controller, which works fine - as well as some Qualcomm - the wifi controller which, again, works fine.

This is a 'Late 2009 27" iMac', running the internal display as well as an external 1920*1200 24" monitor through a DP->HDMI cable. Everything works, including the silly IR remote control thingy (tested using the IR blaster on my phone).

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#474

Post by Liskni_si »

oefnak wrote: post #469
linuxhansl wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm... I have the model with the NVidia GPU. By default I have it turned off (using no extra power) and I have a simple script that I use to turn it on when I want to. ThinkFan works well to control the fans too. Lastly I found that the SD card reader prevented the CPU package from entering C10. With all that I find that in idle mode my laptop (X1E Gen2, almost identical to P1 Gen2) consumes 3.9w, which is pretty goo…

Can you share your script for toggling the video card?

No elaborate script is needed these days, the kernel's runtime power management suspends the card automatically as long as /sys/bus/pci/devices/…/power/control is "auto" and the device isn't being used (the nvidia/nouveau module is unloaded).

Documentation for the nvidia module claims [0] runtime pm is supported even when the module _is_ loaded for GPUs since Turing, but I haven't been able to test that (mine is older than that).

[0] https://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86_64/435.17/READ...

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#475

Post by Liskni_si »

frant-hartm wrote: post #8

For developers, going with Intel only (no Nvidia discrete card) is the most sensible choice. I have P15 and it's riddled with issues - not that they are not solvable, but it needs workarounds, restarts of X (logout/login), or running discrete only (which eats battery). The problem is they don't make the larger workstation laptops with Intel only.

Since they stopped wiring outputs to the dGPU, it's not really that bad. You just rmmod nvidia/nouveau, echo auto >/sys/bus/pci/devices/…/power/control and ignore the dGPU until you need it. And even then, it's absolutely fine to launch a second X server for the game you need to play without shutting down the first one, or just use bumblebee/primusrun.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#476

Post by Liskni_si »

Steltek wrote: post #390
faeriechangling wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I make a distinction between "Plastic" and "Carbon Fibre Reinforced Polymer with a magnesium roll cage" that this laptop uses. We don't think an aluminium bike is better than a carbon fibre bike, so why is an aluminium laptop better than a carbon fibre laptop? I mean aluminium has some nice advantages like heat dissipation but CFRP allows for much lighter laptops. If anything I prefer CRFP because of the weight advan…

Re: bikes, I've found most CF frames lack fender/rack mounts. If you want utility (commuting, shopping, travel), aluminum is going to win out. For example, I can't think of a single CF cargo bike.

Specialized Diverge does have fender/rack mounts (although you need to replace the stock seat post clamp with another one for the top rear rack mounts, but Spec does sell one). It's not exactly a utility bike, but for touring around civilized Europe it's a very good bike. :-)

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#477

Post by Bud »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #457
Bud wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not even close to correct. The vast majority of plastics can't even be truly recycled once. Not back into their original form, anyway. Saying Macs become "e-trash in a couple years" is similarly way way off the mark. Expected life for many Macs is a decade or more. I have one that is from 1984 that still works perfectly. After that, much of the machine is fully recyclable, and the case is 100% recyclable.

> I have one that is from 1984 that I too own a Commodore 64 from 1983, an Atari ST, an Amiga 500 and a 286 Amstrad PC. > Saying Macs become "e-trash in a couple years" is similarly way way off the mark They are forced out of the market by the company upgrade policies. What is the value of an Intel Mac now that Mx(s) are out?

They aren't "forced out of the market". That's just made-up.

And the animus against standard OS upgrades is not particularly convincing, to me at least.

The value of Intel Macs is holding up just fine. I can go sell my 2019 Intel MBP and still get a lot more out of it than a PC laptop of similar vintage. This has of course been historically true of Macs, as well, as even a cursory investigation will reveal.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#478

Post by hansel_der »

linuxhansl wrote: post #398
halotrope wrote: post #110

Generally great machines for Linux. Just a PSA from a X1E gen2 owner: Do NOT get the NVidia GPU, do NOT get the fastest CPU and most importantly: do NOT opt for the 4k screen. With 1080p and Intel GPU it is a good, even great laptop with ok battery life (if you can look over the touchpad). Wonderful keyboard, good Linux support (even fingerprint reader works). But just as with the last Intel macbook, the GPU, 10th ge…

Hmm... I have the model with the NVidia GPU. By default I have it turned off (using no extra power) and I have a simple script that I use to turn it on when I want to. ThinkFan works well to control the fans too. Lastly I found that the SD card reader prevented the CPU package from entering C10. With all that I find that in idle mode my laptop (X1E Gen2, almost identical to P1 Gen2) consumes 3.9w, which is pretty goo…

> consumes 3.9w

is this figure taken from software (powertop) or from a wall power-meter (i.e. including the psu)?

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#479

Post by hansel_der »

auraham wrote: post #451
_0w8t wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To prevent overheating on my X1 ThinkPad under Fedora I set the CPU governor to the power safe mode. As an added benefit it makes the laptop almost silent even when using all the cores/threads to compile huge C++ code base that may the memory usage towards 32 GB. Surely it compiles slower, but the slowdown is less than 25%

Can you elaborate on how to set the CPU on that mode? Is a command or BIOS setting? I would like to do the same on Ubuntu.

in case you did not find out by now

  echo performance |tee /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpufreq/policy?/scaling_governor

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#480

Post by tommiegannert »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #389
tommiegannert wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for providing a useful answer, despite not believing it was posted in good faith. You might be right about other producers still making sticks. I haven't been in the market for a few years. What should I have done differently to make it appear as a true effort to understand?

I'm a random stranger on the internet, so with no intent on telling you how to live or interact :), My own limited biased subjective 0.0005 cents: 1. Original question: "Who's still using this?" is direct and to the point; I grok it. But note that some people in many contexts may interpret it... aggressive. Human mind fills in detail in blunt / short sentences. Politeness in some cases is filling in those blanks pre-…

Thank you. I see Stratoscope responded as well, so I'll keep this short. (again :)

Re-read the post. The original conclusion was:

> The TrackPoint may be something like this. Those of us who insist on it may be small in number. But if it is ever removed, then the one reason why we will only buy ThinkPads is gone. We may as well get a Dell or an HP or a Mac M1 or whatever.

It says nothing of who "those of us" are (the explicit question) other than a cyclical "those who use TrackPoints." And it doesn't at all answer why (the implicit question.)

So I genuinely couldn't find any information related to my question. Since the (long) text was about keyboard rather than pointing device, it also felt very... out of scope. Hence my conclusion: classifying it as a related rant. Granted, I could have just ignored it. Not sure why I replied, TBH.

I guess you're telling me to not gatekeep and try to keep replies on track. Instead, go with the flow. Fair enough. ;)

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