Nature has enormous emotional and cognitive benefits on people • Hacker News Board

Re: Nature has enormous emotional and cognitive benefits on people

#61

Post by throwaway894345 » Wed, May 04, 2022, 5:12 AM UTC

n8cpdx wrote: post #57

throwaway894345 wrote: post #6

This is the sort of thing I think about when the pro-urban/pro-density/anti-car people talk about their vision for the world. I live in a city now, and the lack of substantial nature is suffocating to the extent that I plan to move. The idea that we should all live this way to conserve space—a resource which is only scarce in these urban places—seems excessive to put it mildly. EDIT: A lot of urban folks are rebuttin…

I was just in the forest this weekend. I can take a train to get there - it runs every 15 minutes or more often depending on time of day. I got nervous towards the end of the walk because I was seemingly in the middle of nowhere - no one in sight - and I was losing the light. If I take the train the other direction, I can walk up a mountain (actually a dormant volcano) and enjoy the park there. That tends to be a bit…

That sounds great! Where at?

Re: Nature has enormous emotional and cognitive benefits on people

#62

Post by n8cpdx » Wed, May 04, 2022, 5:16 AM UTC

TedShiller wrote: post #9

The pro housing people always think more housing will lower rents. Apparently they’ve never been to a big, dense city.

What is the right amount of housing to lower rents? How many units should we destroy or prevent to make housing affordable?

Does spreading houses further apart make infrastructure per unit more or less expensive?

Are you seriously anti-housing? Are you pro-homelessness? I honestly don’t get how someone can seriously take an “anti-housing” position, which is what I assume you are when you otherize “pro housing” people.

Re: Nature has enormous emotional and cognitive benefits on people

#63

Post by tjr225 » Wed, May 04, 2022, 5:16 AM UTC

throwaway894345 wrote: post #28

tjr225 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re presenting a false dichotomy. There are plenty of dense places with incredible nature within just an hours drive. In the USA, Maybe not so much outside of the West Coast of the USA however. Personally, living in a city close to nature(seattle area) has been the best thing for me so far in my life; I have spent a stupid amount of money making it happen but wouldn’t trade it for anything. On the flip side it’s n…

Yeah, I didn’t mean to frame it as a dichotomy, but it was a HN comment so I didn’t explore the full depth of nuance, and it was scoped to the US. Yes, some places are dense while still allowing some access to nature.

No worries! I have lived in dense places on the east coast too and always felt super cramped in them as well.

Re: Nature has enormous emotional and cognitive benefits on people

#64

Post by donthellbanme » Wed, May 04, 2022, 5:19 AM UTC

TedShiller wrote: post #9

The pro housing people always think more housing will lower rents. Apparently they’ve never been to a big, dense city.

Housing like they have in Ukraine. Big hugh apartment buildings would help. (I don't know the water is suspose to come from though? Especially in the Bay Area.)

Re: Nature has enormous emotional and cognitive benefits on people

#65

Post by tomjakubowski » Wed, May 04, 2022, 5:19 AM UTC

TedShiller wrote: post #41

alephnan wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean like Tokyo or pretty much anywhere in Japan?

Exactly, just like Tokyo, one of the most expensive cities in the world

Cost to rent a typical 2br apartment vs. population density.

* City A: $1,903/mo, 6,158 persons / km²

* City B: $3,685/mo, 6,659 persons / km²

Can you guess which is Tokyo (prefecture), and which is Hong Kong?

2019 report from Deutsche Bank https://www.dbresearch.com/PROD/RPS_EN-PROD/PROD000000000049...

Another fun data point: Seoul is ~16,000 persons/km² with rent around $1100/mo.

Re: Nature has enormous emotional and cognitive benefits on people

#66

Post by jawarner » Wed, May 04, 2022, 5:20 AM UTC

throwaway894345 wrote: post #34

evancox100 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more you let people build up, the more ground can be left as green space. No one is against park. Land area/space in general is not scarce. What is scarce is land area near job centers (or more broadly, near where people want to spend their time outside the home.) The more you spread people out, the more car dependent the city, necessitating more roads and parking lots.

I don’t have any problems with people building up, but I’m very skeptical that the space between tall buildings will be made into parks, and anyway a city park is not what I would consider “nature”. For folks who want density and can content themselves with urban green spaces, I wish you well on your quest to build taller and denser, just please don’t impose that on everyone! :)

Not all urban parks are created equally. I live close to a park 100s of acres in size in a city (Austin, TX).

Re: Nature has enormous emotional and cognitive benefits on people

#67

Post by n8cpdx » Wed, May 04, 2022, 5:21 AM UTC

TedShiller wrote: post #41

alephnan wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean like Tokyo or pretty much anywhere in Japan?

Exactly, just like Tokyo, one of the most expensive cities in the world

I’ve been searching all over and I can’t find any evidence that any Japanese cities are among the most expensive, when looking at housing costs.

Can you please share your sources?

Re: Nature has enormous emotional and cognitive benefits on people

#68

Post by n8cpdx » Wed, May 04, 2022, 5:22 AM UTC

throwaway894345 wrote: post #61

n8cpdx wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just in the forest this weekend. I can take a train to get there - it runs every 15 minutes or more often depending on time of day. I got nervous towards the end of the walk because I was seemingly in the middle of nowhere - no one in sight - and I was losing the light. If I take the train the other direction, I can walk up a mountain (actually a dormant volcano) and enjoy the park there. That tends to be a bit…

That sounds great! Where at?

Portland, OR.

Re: Nature has enormous emotional and cognitive benefits on people

#69

Post by throwaway894345 » Wed, May 04, 2022, 5:23 AM UTC

standardUser wrote: post #56

throwaway894345 wrote: post #6

This is the sort of thing I think about when the pro-urban/pro-density/anti-car people talk about their vision for the world. I live in a city now, and the lack of substantial nature is suffocating to the extent that I plan to move. The idea that we should all live this way to conserve space—a resource which is only scarce in these urban places—seems excessive to put it mildly. EDIT: A lot of urban folks are rebuttin…

"not just green spaces scattered amid the concrete" Most major cities have at least one park that is a few hundred acres.

A few hundred acres of forest is very different than a few hundred acres of soccer pitches, tennis courts, playgrounds, lawns, gardens, etc with a few acres of bird sanctuary, wetland, or prairie strewn about. It’s better than concrete, but it’s not nature.

Re: Nature has enormous emotional and cognitive benefits on people

#70

Post by spencerflem » Wed, May 04, 2022, 5:23 AM UTC

throwaway894345 wrote: post #51

vkou wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The suburbs don't actually present a solution to this. There is no more nature in them than there is in any other urban environment. It's all manicured lawns and endless pavement, and you can't even walk to a park, because getting anywhere requires hopping into a car. If you want to see nature, you have to live way out in the boonies, on at a minimum, two-acre lots. If everyone lived like that, we'd all have two-hour…

I wasn’t advocating for suburbs. There are more options besides suburbs and urban areas—you should check them out! > If you want to see nature, you have to live way out in the boonies, on at a minimum, two-acre lots. If everyone lived like that, we'd all have two-hour commutes on twenty-lane highways. What a strange comment! Millions of people live with reasonable access to nature and most of them don’t have 2 acre l…

I don't quite get your point, are you suggesting to live near nature or to have the ability to access nature when you want to?

If the second, I really don't see how taking cars out of urban centers and making nice walkable people-focused areas stops you from taking a bus out and biking the rest of the way, or even renting a car once you're out of the city part