Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

vice.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 442 posts

Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#241

Post by throwaway0a5e »

darkerside wrote: post #128
version_five wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> CDC are the least scary people buying this data Most buyers probably just want to target advertising at me, or otherwise grab my attention. The CDC wants a say in how people live their lives and thinks they know better than individuals about risk tolerance and decisions. And they seem to think they can have unchecked power by invoking "science". Can someone name a scarrier entity that could be tracking you? I don't…

> Can someone name a scarrier (sp) entity that could be tracking you? ... The Mafia? Any other criminal or terrorist organization or individual? The police operating under an incorrect warrant? A creepy ex? Unless you buy into conspiracies, the CDC is at worst going to do what it thinks is best for you, and is constrained by constitutional checks and balances.

>and is constrained by constitutional checks and balances.

You can't go a decade of American history without some sort of "yeah that's F'ed up" thing happening that was done with good intentions. Saying constitutional checks and balances prevent bad things from happening is like when the police say they investigated themselves. In reality the public needs to remain vigilant and press the issue.

Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#242

Post by pempem »

jtc331 wrote: post #226
milkey_mouse wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Tuskegee Experiment ended 50 years ago. One would have to have had a rather long career to have been employed at the CDC both then and now.

Anthony Fauci has been at NIH since 1968. That might be a rare example, but long careers do happen.

Tuskegee, fwiw, was in 1932 - 1972

The career is long certainly but I think we all believe we are evolving in our careers. No one here would want to be accused of working in the same way or having the same knowledge in year 1 of their career compared to today.

The CDC has a lot to make up for - it also started in 1946, after tuskegee was started

Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#243

Post by jeromegv »

panny wrote: post #227
sfink wrote: post #199

This is an excellent use of the data, a proof that it is worthwhile for the data to exist, and a terrifying demonstration that we need to grow the hell up with respect to data privacy. It actually sounds like the anonymization and aggregation was done pretty well for this. There's no such thing as 100% anonymity, but there are useful levels of anonymity. The fact that we don't have a standardized way of blessing data…

>and a terrifying demonstration that we need to grow the hell up with respect to data privacy Once again, "conspiracy theorists" were right. I'm beginning to think the governments of the world are reading them for ideas. >The fact that we don't have a standardized way of blessing data with varying known levels of privacy, checked and enforced by law, is kind of ridiculous in 2022. Sure, and then as soon as that happe…

>Once again, "conspiracy theorists" were right. I'm beginning to think the governments of the world are reading them for ideas.

Right how? That private companies track every movement on your phone and that it's available on the market for anyone to purchase? We've spoken about that for years on HN, how is that a conspiracy theory? That's exactly what Apple has said publicly they want to fight.

Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#244

Post by bsimpson »

stephbu wrote: post #4

Headline feels a little misleading, they didn’t track phones per se, they bought data from one of the dozens of cellphone data-brokers that continue to operate despite legislation and congressional action/in-action.

I was totally ready to make a "CDC, go fuck yourself!" meme when I read the headline.

Now, I can't decide how I feel. As a researcher (and someone interested in human behavior generally), it would be interesting to know how people reacted to the various measures attempted during the pandemic. On the other hand, the federal government analyzing the movement patterns of individuals is creepy-as-hell.

Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#245

Post by panny »

maxerickson wrote: post #238
panny wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and a terrifying demonstration that we need to grow the hell up with respect to data privacy Once again, "conspiracy theorists" were right. I'm beginning to think the governments of the world are reading them for ideas. >The fact that we don't have a standardized way of blessing data with varying known levels of privacy, checked and enforced by law, is kind of ridiculous in 2022. Sure, and then as soon as that happe…

This is commercial tracking data, not COVID app data. It's been well known for a long time that plenty of phone apps sell data to aggregators, it's not a conspiracy theory. That commercial data isn't something any court would call a violation of the 4th amendment.

To me that sounds a bit like

>It's not rape if you consent to sex but I slip off the condom when you aren't looking.

If the government is explicitly not allowed to collect this data, then buying it is simply a different form of data collection.

Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#246

Post by ethbr0 »

nradov wrote: post #228
leereeves wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are you talking about? The CDC's mission is fundamentally the same as the mission of the Chinese disease control agency. The difference is how that mission is balanced against people's freedom to live their lives. Please don't misunderstand; that doesn't mean that I oppose everything they do. Everything they do limits freedom, but sometimes that is necessary.

Which specific limits on freedom are necessary? What are the criteria for determining necessity?

Those which reduce mortality rate below a desired threshold.

It's a scientific question as to whether a specific limit on freedom (of movement, of contact, etc.) is effective.

But it's a general approximation that greater freedoms mean higher mortality rates during lethal pandemics. And vice versus.

What level of mortality we're prepared to accept, and what level of limitations on freedom, is a political question in a democracy.

Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#248

Post by maxerickson »

panny wrote: post #245
maxerickson wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is commercial tracking data, not COVID app data. It's been well known for a long time that plenty of phone apps sell data to aggregators, it's not a conspiracy theory. That commercial data isn't something any court would call a violation of the 4th amendment.

To me that sounds a bit like >It's not rape if you consent to sex but I slip off the condom when you aren't looking. If the government is explicitly not allowed to collect this data, then buying it is simply a different form of data collection.

Read closer. I didn't express a personal opinion on the topic, I expressed an opinion/assessment about how courts handle the topic.

Like you can have a legal theory about something and it doesn't mean shit if courts don't accept it.

Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#249

Post by ethbr0 »

patrick451 wrote: post #230
mullingitover wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The CDC wants a say in how people live their lives and thinks they know better than individuals about risk tolerance and decisions. Their charter is disease control . How you 'live your life' is orthogonal to that mission - they're responsible for stopping you from infecting other people with communicable diseases. That is also your own responsibility , and just because responsibilities aren't always things you wan…

This is exactly why the CDC should not exit. Their mission is at loggerheads with liberty.

So any organization which impinges on liberty shouldn't exist? The IRS, fire departments, police departments?

Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#250

Post by criddell »

jeromegv wrote: post #243
panny wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and a terrifying demonstration that we need to grow the hell up with respect to data privacy Once again, "conspiracy theorists" were right. I'm beginning to think the governments of the world are reading them for ideas. >The fact that we don't have a standardized way of blessing data with varying known levels of privacy, checked and enforced by law, is kind of ridiculous in 2022. Sure, and then as soon as that happe…

>Once again, "conspiracy theorists" were right. I'm beginning to think the governments of the world are reading them for ideas. Right how? That private companies track every movement on your phone and that it's available on the market for anyone to purchase? We've spoken about that for years on HN, how is that a conspiracy theory? That's exactly what Apple has said publicly they want to fight.

When location data is available from the phone company, it doesn’t really matter what Apple wants or does.
Post reply on HN