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CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

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Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#211

Post by Eldt »

jatone wrote: post #190
mullingitover wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The CDC wants a say in how people live their lives and thinks they know better than individuals about risk tolerance and decisions. Their charter is disease control . How you 'live your life' is orthogonal to that mission - they're responsible for stopping you from infecting other people with communicable diseases. That is also your own responsibility , and just because responsibilities aren't always things you wan…

> How you 'live your life' is orthogonal to that mission orthogonal does not mean what you think it means given your usage. orthogonal means its entirely unrelated. but the fact is disease control and being able to make personal choices w/ respect to living your life can be in direct conflict means its not orthogonal. apologies for this correction orthogonal is just one of my favorite words. =)

It was used correctly, you've just mistaken the point made about the CDC and how they view their mission

Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#212

Post by denkmoon »

tepitoperrito wrote: post #193
slg wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Unless someone can prove that no one involved in the tuskegee "incident"[0] is no longer employed or influential at the CDC I will just resign myself to thinking that THEY are the conspiracy theorist, The Tuskegee Experiment started 90 years ago and ended 50 years ago. I don't know what proof you need, but the simple facts of human biology basically guarantee that anyone who had any power during that timeframe is no…

There are doctors, lawyers, administrators, and talking heads in their 80s who are well known and respected in their fields today. My knowledge of biology and arithmetic puts them at around 30 years old in the year 1972. That's the year the program ended. If not the CDC then maybe we should just question everyone's motives and I apologize for trying the sensationalist approach. EDIT. Maths. Unedit. Still maths

>maybe we should just question everyone's motives

At some point, you have to have some level of trust in society and its institutions. Or become a paranoid nutter.

Maybe the paranoid nutters are right (just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you), but that's still no way to live.

Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#213

Post by germinalphrase »

tdfx wrote: post #173
germinalphrase wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, perhaps, the CDC should be more independent of political leadership?

I don't think the most perverse behavior we've seen in the CDC has a been a result of political pressure from the executive branch. They seemed to be fairly effective at maneuvering around the Trump administration's attempts to influence their policy. Like most people, at the beginning of the pandemic, I was on the "better safe than sorry" side of things and was generally supportive of their recommendations. Some of…

I don’t disagree with much here. I’ll just offer that Michael Lewis’ recent reporting does seem to implicate a culture of political awareness that negatively impacts the organization’s ability to engage in effective leadership.

Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#215

Post by [deleted] »

Eldt wrote: post #211
jatone wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How you 'live your life' is orthogonal to that mission orthogonal does not mean what you think it means given your usage. orthogonal means its entirely unrelated. but the fact is disease control and being able to make personal choices w/ respect to living your life can be in direct conflict means its not orthogonal. apologies for this correction orthogonal is just one of my favorite words. =)

It was used correctly, you've just mistaken the point made about the CDC and how they view their mission

[deleted]

Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#216

Post by leereeves »

Eldt wrote: post #211
jatone wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How you 'live your life' is orthogonal to that mission orthogonal does not mean what you think it means given your usage. orthogonal means its entirely unrelated. but the fact is disease control and being able to make personal choices w/ respect to living your life can be in direct conflict means its not orthogonal. apologies for this correction orthogonal is just one of my favorite words. =)

It was used correctly, you've just mistaken the point made about the CDC and how they view their mission

It's definitely not orthogonal to how you live your life; their very purpose is to limit how you live your life in order to prevent/reduce behaviors that spread disease. For example, they issue quarantine orders.[1]

People understand that is their mission. Some find it scary.

Everyone has a different threshold at which they start to object to the CDC overriding people's freedom in the pursuit of disease control, but everyone will object at some point. For example, would you accept a Shanghai-style lockdown?

1: https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/pdf/Public-Health-Order_Gener...

Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#217

Post by smileysteve »

version_five wrote: post #100
samschooler wrote: post #2

See the issue here is that this data exists at all and it’s purchasable by any group. I feel like the CDC are the least scary people buying this data. And from the looks of it they used it for medical research, which if similar in style to other medical research is bound by boards and ethics committees. What we aren’t writing about in this article are the groups using this data Cambridge Analytica style to sway polit…

> CDC are the least scary people buying this data Most buyers probably just want to target advertising at me, or otherwise grab my attention. The CDC wants a say in how people live their lives and thinks they know better than individuals about risk tolerance and decisions. And they seem to think they can have unchecked power by invoking "science". Can someone name a scarrier entity that could be tracking you? I don't…

> Can someone name a scarrier entity that could be tracking you?

Yes? As the CDC's only enforcement mechanisms are generally small teams in tyvek suits with fertilizer sprayers with bleach. Their primary function is public advisement and their employees are civilian.

So yes, CIA, FBI, IRS, NSA, military, Homeland security (tsa and coast guard), grb; but also Facebook, apple, Google, at&t.

Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#218

Post by InitialLastName »

denkmoon wrote: post #212
tepitoperrito wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are doctors, lawyers, administrators, and talking heads in their 80s who are well known and respected in their fields today. My knowledge of biology and arithmetic puts them at around 30 years old in the year 1972. That's the year the program ended. If not the CDC then maybe we should just question everyone's motives and I apologize for trying the sensationalist approach. EDIT. Maths. Unedit. Still maths

>maybe we should just question everyone's motives At some point, you have to have some level of trust in society and its institutions. Or become a paranoid nutter. Maybe the paranoid nutters are right (just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you), but that's still no way to live.

The problem with paranoia is that it's one of those things that can be self-fulfilling the more common it is, as the paranoid nutters get into power and work together disable the conspiracies they perceive at everyone's expense, thus justifying and magnifying the beliefs of the paranoid nutjobs on the other side (and so on).

Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#219

Post by monocasa »

smileysteve wrote: post #217
version_five wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> CDC are the least scary people buying this data Most buyers probably just want to target advertising at me, or otherwise grab my attention. The CDC wants a say in how people live their lives and thinks they know better than individuals about risk tolerance and decisions. And they seem to think they can have unchecked power by invoking "science". Can someone name a scarrier entity that could be tracking you? I don't…

> Can someone name a scarrier entity that could be tracking you? Yes? As the CDC's only enforcement mechanisms are generally small teams in tyvek suits with fertilizer sprayers with bleach. Their primary function is public advisement and their employees are civilian. So yes, CIA, FBI, IRS, NSA, military, Homeland security (tsa and coast guard), grb; but also Facebook, apple, Google, at&t.

Also just your local police when they're fed up with the fourth amendment.

Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#220

Post by tragictrash »

leereeves wrote: post #216
Eldt wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was used correctly, you've just mistaken the point made about the CDC and how they view their mission

It's definitely not orthogonal to how you live your life; their very purpose is to limit how you live your life in order to prevent/reduce behaviors that spread disease. For example, they issue quarantine orders.[1] People understand that is their mission. Some find it scary. Everyone has a different threshold at which they start to object to the CDC overriding people's freedom in the pursuit of disease control, but…

It feels like your living in some strange alternate reality. What are you talking about? How is the CDC 'overriding freedom'?

They collect data and make recommendations.

The rest of the world is out here waiting for you, please wake up. We need everyone to make this work.

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