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Why I don't miss React: a story about using the platform

jackfranklin.co.uk

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Re: Why I don't miss React: a story about using the platform

#71

Post by nawgz »

cyral wrote: post #39
nawgz wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote my own React components using D3 to do the underlying math but setting up my own DOM rendering. It's ok, my thoughts Pros: * I have generic "zoom/pan" implemented. I did this by making a generic ChartContainer with 5 zones - top, right, bottom, left, content - and you specify just the size of the non-content zones (if displaying them at all) and otherwise it behaves responsively (i.e. CSS style on the contain…

I also went this route and used d3 for the math but my own hand-made SVGs for the rendering so that the DOM is all in "react land". You may want to check out this library: https://airbnb.io/visx/ They converted a ton of d3 features into proper React components

Nice link, thanks! I built my own axes / legends / mouseovers but this other stuff looks awesome, really nice to be able to compose their parameters too if I offer something like a line chart etc. I will definitely try to integrate some of this

Re: Why I don't miss React: a story about using the platform

#72

Post by enlyth »

louthy wrote: post #69
_pdp_ wrote: post #8

If all you need is a couple of basic forms and some basic interaction, you can do it all with vanilla JS but let's not kid ourselves. This will not allow you to build very rich apps without implementing a significant chunk of the frameworks you dislike so much. In fact, I would even say that if this is not a core part of your product, you are simply wasting time and resources. There is a huge amount of man-hours pour…

> There is a huge amount of man-hours poured into making these frameworks work correctly under any condition. The path is littered with the ghosts of frameworks past. Don't let the current efforts or trends convince you that we're done with this process. React will be a ghost one day.

That's like saying I should use a steam engine today because the electric motor will be superseded someday.

Re: Why I don't miss React: a story about using the platform

#73

Post by nawgz »

louthy wrote: post #69
_pdp_ wrote: post #8

If all you need is a couple of basic forms and some basic interaction, you can do it all with vanilla JS but let's not kid ourselves. This will not allow you to build very rich apps without implementing a significant chunk of the frameworks you dislike so much. In fact, I would even say that if this is not a core part of your product, you are simply wasting time and resources. There is a huge amount of man-hours pour…

> There is a huge amount of man-hours poured into making these frameworks work correctly under any condition. The path is littered with the ghosts of frameworks past. Don't let the current efforts or trends convince you that we're done with this process. React will be a ghost one day.

That’s a pretty funny stance. The library has a gigantic developer share and is supported by a tech giant. A world where React isn’t used and remembered is one where the web isn’t based on the same primitive. The idea of a thin layer on top of JS offering composition is not complex, and the execution by react is still trend setting. Remember when they introduced hooks and now tons of libraries have the same thing? That’s not because React is behind the times and possible to supplant as a small team

Re: Why I don't miss React: a story about using the platform

#74

Post by Bellend »

roopawl wrote: post #65
kall wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like google does web component frameworks like it does messaging apps. Each new one is the silver bullet. I wouldn't build on any google web framework personally, even if it claims to be oh so simple and lightweight.

Mirrors my experience exactly. Used polymer, angular, react and lit element. I’ve been able to rely on react for almost a decade. The others have just been mistakes

You don't understand the context since Polymer and Lit Element do not solve the same problem space as Angular and React aim to solve.

Re: Why I don't miss React: a story about using the platform

#75

Post by v0idzer0 »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #37
v0idzer0 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah agreed. The arc of learning seems to be… This is interesting -> this is the best thing in the world -> here’s how this could be better The “use the platform” people have been making this case for web components for at least 5 years now. The reality is WC will take off when and if they are a better alternative and even then they’ll need to be paired with some sort of framework. They may even make their way into R…

React very much feels like its own platform to me - having its own browser tools to debug it is a dead giveaway.

I think it feels that way because it’s a bit of a paradigm shift in terms of the way we think about building user interfaces, but the reality is its just javascript running in a browser. I’ve been writing react over 10 years and used to devtools just a handful of times. They’re by no means necessary. I used to use an extension for jQuery to quickly find css selectors. Nobody was saying we weren’t using the platform then. It’s just a strange form of posturing from web component enthusiasts who are frustrated they aren’t taking off. And these enthusiasts are 99% Google employees who work on web components.

Re: Why I don't miss React: a story about using the platform

#76

Post by nawgz »

ricardobeat wrote: post #67
_pdp_ wrote: post #8

If all you need is a couple of basic forms and some basic interaction, you can do it all with vanilla JS but let's not kid ourselves. This will not allow you to build very rich apps without implementing a significant chunk of the frameworks you dislike so much. In fact, I would even say that if this is not a core part of your product, you are simply wasting time and resources. There is a huge amount of man-hours pour…

> If all you need is a couple of basic forms and some basic interaction, you can do it all with vanilla JS but let's not kid ourselves This is a classic red-herring argument from developers who have not built anything complex with vanilla js. You can build rich interactions with or without a framework, you’re just making different trade-offs (conventions, learning curve, flexibility, tooling). There is a much larger…

You’re arguing chrome dev tools were built with vanilla JS and didn’t require their own bespoke framework? That doesn’t track for me

Re: Why I don't miss React: a story about using the platform

#77

Post by 5Qn8mNbc2FNCiVV »

ricardobeat wrote: post #67
_pdp_ wrote: post #8

If all you need is a couple of basic forms and some basic interaction, you can do it all with vanilla JS but let's not kid ourselves. This will not allow you to build very rich apps without implementing a significant chunk of the frameworks you dislike so much. In fact, I would even say that if this is not a core part of your product, you are simply wasting time and resources. There is a huge amount of man-hours pour…

> If all you need is a couple of basic forms and some basic interaction, you can do it all with vanilla JS but let's not kid ourselves This is a classic red-herring argument from developers who have not built anything complex with vanilla js. You can build rich interactions with or without a framework, you’re just making different trade-offs (conventions, learning curve, flexibility, tooling). There is a much larger…

Using web components makes your forms instantly inaccessible without JS. Browser APIs evolved over time and albeit most are pretty good nowadays, a lot of stuff is still bad in HTML world and frameworks like these solve that painpoint. The framework still allows usage of FormData and whatnot, there's even a new framework ontop of React now that aims for form handling without any JS at all in the browser so there are good reasons to adapt them.

And the fun part is that when you are going with the browser APIs like a responsible developers, do aim for backwards compatibility and browser support and all that jazz you will at some point also be annoyed to write a lot of imperative code to add a modal, add this field dynamically, handle class toggles and make another button somewhere change something else in the UI that it's inevitable that you write a poor-mans version of React that now no one knows how to maintain and onboard people.

React didn't come from PHDs in some university, it came from the real needs and desires of developers to just think in "I want my UI to look like this, get it done" and not in "Aight, I add a class here now, but update the value here, this button also needs to be disabled now and then make the request and if it fails then add this element for the error in this spot and enable the button again but if it works yeah just throw all of these away and replace it with a success message"

Re: Why I don't miss React: a story about using the platform

#78

Post by metadat »

nawgz wrote: post #73
louthy wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a huge amount of man-hours poured into making these frameworks work correctly under any condition. The path is littered with the ghosts of frameworks past. Don't let the current efforts or trends convince you that we're done with this process. React will be a ghost one day.

That’s a pretty funny stance. The library has a gigantic developer share and is supported by a tech giant. A world where React isn’t used and remembered is one where the web isn’t based on the same primitive. The idea of a thin layer on top of JS offering composition is not complex, and the execution by react is still trend setting. Remember when they introduced hooks and now tons of libraries have the same thing? Th…

> The library has a gigantic developer share..

So did jQuery, and that google framework used to create Gmail, what was it called?

Oh yeah, nobody cares anymore because they're irrelevant in 2022.

Re: Why I don't miss React: a story about using the platform

#80

Post by Sophistifunk »

datavirtue wrote: post #38
LAC-Tech wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think react sits really well with some people, and with others it doesn't. For me I find I have to fight against the platform to separate presentation from behaviour. And let's not kid ourselves, a lot of react code bases do the classic winforms mistake of having an essentially code behind architecture.

And why was that a mistake?

Because it was implemented via inheritance. Which is why the argument is BS, nobody does react like this. They specifically tell you not to do it, and I think there's a bunch of stuff in there to stop it from working.
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