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Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

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Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#121

Post by np- »

malfist wrote: post #115
kodah wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American Corporations drink their own kool-aid, which is probably why they can sit there and talk about what's wrong concisely without knowing what to do about it. The days of servant leadership, or leading from the front are gone in terms of management. Instead, they're a self-serving bunch. Engineers are effectively the lowest on the hierarchy and their happiness matters to no one in the chain because everyone is s…

You have a very negative opinion about management. Please remember that managers are people too and they're (likely) trying their best too. Just as they give you feedback, it is often helpful to give upward feedback too. Especially if it's in the form of "I need you to do X to help me"

Not OP, but I don't feel this has anything to do with any specific people, but more an indictment of the system itself that we've created. Historically, there has never been an incentive or compensation structure that exists in companies that would lead management to begin to care about this stuff over their other priorities and deliverables.

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#122

Post by ozzythecat »

I’m going to use this post as an opportunity to tell people about Amazon.

The company has some of the most incompetent managers, who under pressure, will throw their own people under the bus. By incompetent, I mean “yes” men who tell 10 different people exactly what they want to hear.

These are people doing the bare minimum to keep their own jobs, and when things go off rails, they pass the blame to everyone around them, without ever accepting any responsibility.

It’s the opposite of everything described in this article.

I’ve been in meetings where VPs acknowledged their expectations on a service launch had led to 60+ SDEs leaving the organization or leaving Amazon entirely. They had no remorse.

I was personally told to not get involved in day to day matters and keep a distance with engineers in my own organization, so I can better focus on doing what’s right for the company.

The other problem was that the L5/L6 managers, often without US permanent residency status, would simply cower out of fear of losing their own jobs. If such a manager loses their job, they have maybe 30 days to find another employer who provides them sponsorship, or otherwise they have to move back to India.

This led to managers not acting on their teams interest or protecting their engineers. Instead, they do everything to protect their own careers.

I’m convinced most L7+ managers at Amazon have no ability to empathize with engineers. They are literally coached (like I was) on avoiding it. It’s a sign of weakness.

I do NOT recommend working at Amazon. It’s a form of suicide for your physical and mental health.

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#123

Post by paulmd »

cjbgkagh wrote: post #11

It bears repeating, many people who think they have burnout actually have chronic fatigue (CFS/ME) but don’t know it yet. Repeated burnouts may simply be a relapse and recovery cycle. A number of the genetic predispositions to CFS also tends to have behavioral components (anxiety disorders and ADHD) that include a preference for a career in software. Now with Covid many of those who may never have had CFS are finding…

side note but if you're suffering from chronic fatigue please also consider getting checked out for sleep apnea especially if you snore or are overweight (which again is not uncommon for programmers given we sit on our asses all day). It very well may not be the only problem, but it may be part of the problem.

In the long term sleep apnea will fuck up your heart due to hypoxia and it can't be good for your brain or anything else. Plus sleep disorders seem to possibly be tied to Alzheimers (one theory is that REM sleep helps clear amyloid proteins). It's just bad news in general and it's widely under-diagnosed given how fat the american population is.

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#124

Post by lifeplusplus »

I got burnt out and it took me 3 years to be interested in tech again.. even now I'm not at prev level of starting GitHub projects, going to hackathons, and reading tech books. I was done done. I attempted random entry level jobs in different fields.. video editing, cold calling, marketing, and more

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#125

Post by lifeplusplus »

tristor wrote: post #71

What actually burned me out when I was an engineer was conflicting signals. At one company our team worked ourselves into a froth and got a major multi-year project done 8 months ahead of scheduled and millions of dollars under budget. Everyone on the team was given a sizeable spot bonus and a public thank-you in a company all-hands... then they proceeded to lay off the entire team. At another company, I clearly rais…

Why do I feel 2nd company wasn't led by technical founders or technical management

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#126

Post by jseban »

thrower123 wrote: post #67
maerF0x0 wrote: post #16

> Celebrate progress. Burnout is often caused by a feeling of stagnation. Seeing the progress you’re making day-to-day is hard. Managers should create space to celebrate small wins and reflect on the mountains you’ve climbed. I really appreciate this one. As a very high conscientiousness and med-high neuroticism person a manager asking for a "status check" on a project actually sounds like "You did something wrong th…

I really dislike this when it feels forced and artificial. Also there's a strong risk of doing some little employee-appreciation gesture that backfires and pisses people off. Most of them do, because it feels like the company has cheaped out, or worse, spent a shit-load of money on something that you hate and then expects you to be grateful about it.

Yeah it pisses me off when I've been squeezed for every drop for the whole project by some bozo manager, and then I'm also now forced to be forget and forgive all of that, and pretend to be happy, because of some awkward celebration, just becomes another ass kissing for the manager and salt in the wounds for me.

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#127

Post by H8crilA »

Recent burnout recoveree here, opinion: your company is unable to fix the problem for you.

The only way to fix it is for you to learn to actually Not Give A Fuck. If you are forced to, for example due to immigration or family reasons, then I don't have any useful advice, sorry :(. Otherwise keep your savings account at 6, 12, ideally 18 months worth of living expenses and don't worry about performance reports, unanswered emails, "failing" your coworkers, etc. Do about 50% of what you can actually deliver and ride along. I actually think this is also better for the company, because workloads expand and contract sort of naturally, so by keeping this margin of 50% you'll be able to handle tougher moments.

Once you get to a dark place: counseling (psychologist/psychiatrist), medication, taking 3+ months off - great stuff, can definitely recommend. Start with a visit to general practitioner.

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#128

Post by [deleted] »

candiddevmike wrote: post #42
StevenWaterman wrote: post #37

I suffered from severe burnout around a year ago, and only now am I starting to feel back to normal. Nothing here would have helped me, and it's pretty clear to me why that is the case. (Paraphrased from literature that I read at the time) There's two kinds of burnout. One is caused by overwork, stress, long hours, not enough breaks, no holidays, not enough headcount, and so on. The kind of things this article talks…

I think this is actually the most common type of "unreported" burnout in tech. The enormous amount of work to be done weighs on you, but the work doesn't have a defined set of requirements or the requirements are constantly shifting. For me, I've seen it mostly when a rewrite is happening, seems closely related to analysis paralysis.

[deleted]

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#129

Post by bogomipz »

BlargMcLarg wrote: post #7

All the "strategies" (really just tips) follow the same pattern of either tunneling on overwork as a cause, treating symptoms or pathos. >Sid and Michelle emphasized that the earlier a manager can identify burnout the better. Honestly, at the point of identification, you're likely too late. Especially for something as insidious as burnout, which can last for years and not show any symptoms before it is beyond the poi…

I have similar views on the OKRs. I am not even sure how they became so ubiquitous as a measuring stick. Did this come out of Scrum and just found a welcome place in general management speak?

I'm also curious if anyone feels similarly about daily standup meetings and the hyperventilating over the Jira board? I feel like I've been in environments where the goal seems to perversely turn into having something to discuss at the next days standup meeting.

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#130

Post by jseban »

AtNightWeCode wrote: post #112

I have been on the edge to burnout. Reasons why. Incompetent people always stress everybody up: They put enormous pressure on single persons. They steel a lot of time and energy. They try to get other persons to do their work. They always sidetrack everybody into quests that are not important. They never solve anything. Every solution to a problem comes with new problems that are more difficult to handle. They always…

More or less modus operandi for tech company managers in my experience.
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