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Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

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Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#71
What actually burned me out when I was an engineer was conflicting signals.

At one company our team worked ourselves into a froth and got a major multi-year project done 8 months ahead of scheduled and millions of dollars under budget. Everyone on the team was given a sizeable spot bonus and a public thank-you in a company all-hands... then they proceeded to lay off the entire team.

At another company, I clearly raised concerns about a new product ahead of launch, was told that my concerns were invalid, then the senior engineer on the product team left the company, then most of the other devs left, then management went live with the launch on time even though it was not ready, and I was expected (and followed through) on keeping online through the launch rush as the assigned Ops person. Afterwards there was never any acknowledgement of the fact that I was 100% right in all of my criticisms and that their failure to address them directly lead to the lost of 5 people, forced me to work significant overtime (the first 3 days of the launch I didn't even leave the office, I slept on a couch), and that had they addressed them properly it would have increase revenues. Senior managers lauded the product and considered it a success... I considered (and still consider) it a failure, and it's still inferior to competitors that entered the market later and did things correctly, the way I would have done them.

What would have helped me is that when I felt successful, that my management felt our team was successful, and then treated us like we were successful. When I felt that our team was failing, that management would have treated us like we're failing (additional support / time). What happened instead was mixed signals that always resulted in a net benefit to senior managers and a direct net detriment to the engineering teams, and myself personally. A cynical take would be that burn out is caused by senior managers being selfish assholes.

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#72

I suffered from severe burnout around a year ago, and only now am I starting to feel back to normal. Nothing here would have helped me, and it's pretty clear to me why that is the case. (Paraphrased from literature that I read at the time) There's two kinds of burnout. One is caused by overwork, stress, long hours, not enough breaks, no holidays, not enough headcount, and so on. The kind of things this article talks…

Get out of my head! This resonates with me - this is exactly how I'm currently feeling. Do you have any resources that were particularly insightful to you from your research?

I think that [1] was the article that first alerted me to the fact that there's different kinds of burnout and it's not one-size-fits-all. Other than that, I don't have too many resources. You probably shouldn't take my advice, because my burnout ended up with me quitting and taking a year out to work on a startup. However if you can leave and join a different team / company, I'd recommend it. By the time you're feeling burnt out, you probably don't have time to fix things.

I did try to fix the root-cause organisational issues, and actually did have a sizable impact with many of my suggestions having been implemented now. However, I ruined myself in the process. It was far more difficult than I expected, because it was a huge old-school hierarchical place. I wasn't paid enough to fix things, and it wasn't in my job description. I ignored that and pushed to fix things anyway - last I've heard it actually made a difference and some of the things I advocated have actually happened now, but it was too late for me.

I just got round to reading the Phoenix Project & Unicorn Project recently, and I'd recommend that. I saw an awful lot of similarities with my old company, and I think it would have helped to have that example of how to improve things. Even then, they were only successful in the book because they had management buy-in.

[1] https://www.inc.com/melody-wilding/3-types-of-burnout-accord...

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#73
I'm curious why the article was started with:

> Working at a startup is demanding

Is there a corollary "working at an established dinosaur is relaxing"?

I've worked for 10 years at a company that is celebrating its 50th anniversary in a few months. I've been through at least two burnout cycles. Peers have experienced the same.

And I've experienced it at the other 4 companies I've worked at. I don't think startups have some special corner on the burnout market.

Sometimes, I've survived the burnout cycles for another go, but in the end in fact, each time I've departed a company it's been because of burnout of some sort. It's usually a realization that I've made the difference I can make (which may be zero) and I've exhausted all my ideas to make the compnay/product/team/culture/solutions/whatever any better.

Sadly as I skimmed through this list, about the only one that I thought would have had any dent in my various burnouts would be #7 - Express Gratitude. And I'm not sure that's really it. I think at the end of the day, what I have found lacking is a sense of respect. These companies pay so much money to employ and task software engineers, and then they try to put them in harnesses and treat them likes horses.

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everybody experiencing burnout has CFS/ME but enough do that it’s worth pointing out every time there is a burnout discussion. I thought I simply kept burning out through overwork for about 10 years before discovering that I actually had CFS and I’m assuming I’m not the only one. I was highly resistant to the idea of having it as I did not identify with the disability and thought CFS people were just lazy. Had I…

Is the overworking leading to constant stress and that stress leading to ME/CFS which leads to a number of issues like trouble sleeping, physical/mental symptoms, and depression/anxiety? This seems to be significantly undiagnosed. How do you know? What treatment has significantly helped? Getting good sleep? Mindfulness? Walks? etc? I ask because I'm writing a book about this and want to learn more.

Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN) was the first treatment where there was a night and day improvement and from that point I knew I was not imagining my problems as many doctors kept suggesting. I was doing a linear search through all known fatigue treatments before hitting this one. I found out about it from what sounded like a crazy person posting on a YouTube video. I explicitly looked for crazy people posts because I figured if I found something that worked that would be what I would sound like. Doctors kept telling me I was perfectly healthy and were no help whatsoever.

A lot of what you’re talking about would come under the category of dysautonomia which certainly plays a part but is not the only part. For many people treating dysautonomia may be sufficient to recover.

It’s massively undiagnosed. Doctors in general are rather oblivious.

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#75

A lot of this is centered around doing less, expecting less from your workers, hiring more and "being more positive". These are pretty sentiments, but frankly they're completely dis-joined from the reality of working in a competitive, high-stakes engineering environment, where your boss WILL call you while you're on vacation, where you WILL go 8-12 months without finding a qualified candidate, where you WILL feel pre…

What a shortsighted view. I struggle not to go against the comment guidelines. This hustle culture drives me up the wall.

A crunch once in a while is fine. Some deadlines are unavoidable. But brute force as corporate culture will inevitably lead to shit results. Especially in so-called "high-stakes environments" , where mistakes carry severe consequences.

On top of that, burning out can nullify years of "personal growth". A wreck is a wreck, no matter how many seas it has sailed.

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#76
Cynical idea, for Senior Management: Make sure less-senior managers know that you're always alert to the dangers of developer burnout. And that your #1 "quick fix from on high" idea for addressing developer burnout is to downsize the intermediate management, then use the $Savings to hire more experienced developers.

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really dislike this when it feels forced and artificial. Also there's a strong risk of doing some little employee-appreciation gesture that backfires and pisses people off. Most of them do, because it feels like the company has cheaped out, or worse, spent a shit-load of money on something that you hate and then expects you to be grateful about it.

I very much feel you on this. At some point I have enough company swag. I do think the "appreciation store" model is a really good one. Allowing each to choose their reward.

I very much think that the "give me money" model is a really good one.

There's this very odd strain of infantilization that runs through a lot of corporate office management, like they are trying to reward second-graders with a choice from the prize box if they collect enough gold stars, rather than dealing with fully-grown adults that have their own children.

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#78
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd shorten that to "Maybe it's time to admit corporations went too far pressuring the average worker". It took me a long time to realize it, but work/life balance in the U.S. is weighted far too heavily in favor of business, at the expense of the individual and their family and community.

It's not just the US. Without going into the nuances of the US, things like burnout are severely on the rise among the younger crowds all over the world despite some of them working as much or less than before in several countries. Most of these countries are adopting American office concepts. More statistics, more pressure, more management / talks with management, more "work family", tighter interviews, you name it.…

You start by arguing that it's not just the US, and then continue by saying that the rest of the world is adopting american practices, which is causing the issue.

I'm confused.

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#79
post #64

I suffered from severe burnout around a year ago, and only now am I starting to feel back to normal. Nothing here would have helped me, and it's pretty clear to me why that is the case. (Paraphrased from literature that I read at the time) There's two kinds of burnout. One is caused by overwork, stress, long hours, not enough breaks, no holidays, not enough headcount, and so on. The kind of things this article talks…

Wouldn't that be a "boreout" instead of "burnout"?

That is probably a better fit, yes. Not perfect, since I was still intellectually stimulated by trying to improve the environment and processes, but every attempt inevitably hit a roadblock. I identify most with the 2nd and 3rd categories in [1]

However I think it's more valuable for me to keep using the term burnout, especially in situations like this. To a manager, burnout and boreout look the same. Ideally you could inject 'boreout' into the public consciousness, but it's more realistic for me to say I was experiencing burnout with different root causes.

[1] https://www.inc.com/melody-wilding/3-types-of-burnout-accord...

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#80

All the "strategies" (really just tips) follow the same pattern of either tunneling on overwork as a cause, treating symptoms or pathos. >Sid and Michelle emphasized that the earlier a manager can identify burnout the better. Honestly, at the point of identification, you're likely too late. Especially for something as insidious as burnout, which can last for years and not show any symptoms before it is beyond the poi…

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