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Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

about.gitlab.com

21–30 of 205 posts

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#21
>Encourage time off

The best way to do this is to mandate a minimum time off. I've been lucky enough to work a couple places where this was the policy. This has to be a top-down initiative.

>Increase headcount

Definitely. I've seen short-sightedness prevent this from happening and it doesn't end well. In fact, I once quit a job where I was gradually taking on additional work (without additional pay, of course). I probably wouldn't have quit if I had one additional person to help me. When I expressed my concern I got "we can manage our workload right now." An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

>Express gratitude

Yes, but do it with cash. Don't send trinkets to people's houses - just give them the cash instead. It can get really insulting when you're rewarding people with silly trinkets then saying there's no room in the budget for a pay increase. (Been there).

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#22

A couple jobs ago I got very burnt out, MSP where I was the only senior tech left. 60-80 hour weeks for many months straight. I was so burnt out, that I became extremely defensive and worried I was imminently about to be fired literally all the time. Here's what my boss did relative to this list, it's a funny parallel: 1. Disallowed taking vacation because they couldn't afford for me to be unavailable. Overtime was s…

> . No sympathy. He explained that he was too busy doing sales and managing. He would regularly say that if he had the time he could go do my job easily.

this is a huge red flag.

No one's job (in a knowledge based worker environment) is ever easy, especially not if you are the senior technical person in the company. It calls about the dunning-krugger effect all over.

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#23

All the "strategies" (really just tips) follow the same pattern of either tunneling on overwork as a cause, treating symptoms or pathos. >Sid and Michelle emphasized that the earlier a manager can identify burnout the better. Honestly, at the point of identification, you're likely too late. Especially for something as insidious as burnout, which can last for years and not show any symptoms before it is beyond the poi…

> So stop putting them under a lot of pressure. The second tip hints at this, but it only seems to be a reactionary measure. Maybe all this goalsetting, OKRs and such is exactly the problem with the industry, always having to feel pressured to an extreme by metrics and stats which effectively mean nothing, when most people just want to put in an honest day's work and progress.

You nailed it. The entire article can be summed up by your statement. It's great they're acknowledging it, but putting corporate make-up on it is cringey; it almost comes off like we are the problem and not the other way around.

I don't give a damn about "drinking the kool-aid" and I don't give a damn about your business theatrics nor the political drama that goes with it. Give me work to do and leave me alone to do it. That'll solve a lot of the burn-out.

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#24
post #12

“Working at a startup is demanding. GitLab team members are often under a lot of pressure.” Isn’t being a $7.5B publicly-traded company the definition of not a startup?

This is HN while not everyone's subscribes to everything pg says there is a lot of agreement on what constitutes a startup and differentiates it from other more conventional businesses.

PG says a startup is any company who looks at growth as their primary measure. A business is any company who looks at the bottom line as their primary measure.

So it depends on the definition you wish to subscribe to. There isn't a universal consensus but in this sense many HNers would see GitLab as a startup despite being worth many Billions.

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#25
post #19

All the "strategies" (really just tips) follow the same pattern of either tunneling on overwork as a cause, treating symptoms or pathos. >Sid and Michelle emphasized that the earlier a manager can identify burnout the better. Honestly, at the point of identification, you're likely too late. Especially for something as insidious as burnout, which can last for years and not show any symptoms before it is beyond the poi…

I'd shorten that to "Maybe it's time to admit corporations went too far pressuring the average worker". It took me a long time to realize it, but work/life balance in the U.S. is weighted far too heavily in favor of business, at the expense of the individual and their family and community.

It's not just the US. Without going into the nuances of the US, things like burnout are severely on the rise among the younger crowds all over the world despite some of them working as much or less than before in several countries.

Most of these countries are adopting American office concepts. More statistics, more pressure, more management / talks with management, more "work family", tighter interviews, you name it. All stuff that pressures the Average Joe who just wants to make a living. For SE, the majority of these jobs are best described as "gluing APIs together", nowhere near the prestigious "you really gotta want it!" jobs they are sold as. Now add to that while SE does earn above average in all of these countries, it isn't so luxurious as a non-senior that you could pick your nose and live super comfortably no matter which city you live in.

So the pressure got worse and both intrinsic and extrinsic motivators are down. Add onto that a bunch of other societal problems. If anything, it's more surprising people aren't expecting half the populace to burn out at some point in life.

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#26

A couple jobs ago I got very burnt out, MSP where I was the only senior tech left. 60-80 hour weeks for many months straight. I was so burnt out, that I became extremely defensive and worried I was imminently about to be fired literally all the time. Here's what my boss did relative to this list, it's a funny parallel: 1. Disallowed taking vacation because they couldn't afford for me to be unavailable. Overtime was s…

Were you working for a sadist? Even if this was exaggerated a little bit, this isn't far from what I've experienced too.

To be honest, I just look at the people in the management roles nowadays and if they give me "command and control" vibes, I'm out.

Sounds like you worked for a small business and didn't know your own worth. You had the leverage the whole time.

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#27
post #12

“Working at a startup is demanding. GitLab team members are often under a lot of pressure.” Isn’t being a $7.5B publicly-traded company the definition of not a startup?

GitLab has documented how to still be a startup after IPO: https://about.gitlab.com/company/still-a-startup/

I think that’s a lovely page and some excellent sentiments in many areas.

However I feel that it’s important to accept reality and not attempt to redefine words.

A startup is literally defined as to “get something moving”, I would say at this point that gitlab is definitely in the realm of “in motion” and has a significant amount of inertia. It is not in the first stages of becoming a company, it is a relatively well-oiled, thought through and publicly traded company.

Obviously terms can be fuzzy, there may be no single event that defines gitlab as no longer being a startup and no particular point in time being the point of state alteration.

But gitlab as it exists today definitely does not meet my own personal and informal definition of startup, and I suspect that is true for many people.

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#28

A lot of this is fluff. I don't really care about plaudits, your gratitude or other fake positive reinforcement. Give me extra money if you think I'm doing a good job. For those who need a manager to tell you that you're burned out then that's totally the wrong way to perceive it. You tell the manager that you are and tell the manager you're taking time off. It's not a conversation. Those are statements you make and…

One person's fluff is another person's meaningful gesture. A $100 gift is worth more than a $100 bill to many people.

The intention is what counts.

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#29

> Celebrate progress. Burnout is often caused by a feeling of stagnation. Seeing the progress you’re making day-to-day is hard. Managers should create space to celebrate small wins and reflect on the mountains you’ve climbed. I really appreciate this one. As a very high conscientiousness and med-high neuroticism person a manager asking for a "status check" on a project actually sounds like "You did something wrong th…

It a very, very fine line to tread before it becomes Defiant Jazz (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Turq37lntO0)

Re: Preventing Burnout: A Manager's Toolkit

#30
post #22

A couple jobs ago I got very burnt out, MSP where I was the only senior tech left. 60-80 hour weeks for many months straight. I was so burnt out, that I became extremely defensive and worried I was imminently about to be fired literally all the time. Here's what my boss did relative to this list, it's a funny parallel: 1. Disallowed taking vacation because they couldn't afford for me to be unavailable. Overtime was s…

> . No sympathy. He explained that he was too busy doing sales and managing. He would regularly say that if he had the time he could go do my job easily. this is a huge red flag. No one's job (in a knowledge based worker environment) is ever easy, especially not if you are the senior technical person in the company. It calls about the dunning-krugger effect all over.

>No one's job (in a knowledge based worker environment) is ever easy, especially not if you are the senior technical person in the company. It calls about the dunning-krugger effect all over.

This dude hadn't been a tech is like 10+ years and couldn't even do the job of the juniors if truth be told.

It's funny too, on the regular there would be some issue I hadn't gotten too yet. He had been contacted for an update so he would come to me for an update. He then would want to micromanage and make decisions around the the ticket but he didn't know even the basics of the situation. So instead of letting me decide, he would need me to extensively explain the situation so that he could make the decision himself. On so many instances I didn't explain well enough or whatever and he would make really bad decisions.

For example he made the decision more than once that all workstations should have a ping network monitor tracking their uptime. Fair enough... that was the case. But then he would make the decision that they also should alert us if they go down. Except then we suddenly start receiving alerts constantly about workstations being turned off or going to sleep.

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