An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021) • Hacker News Board

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#221

Post by Eric_WVGG » Tue, May 03, 2022, 1:43 PM UTC

Syonyk wrote: post #122

balaji1 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You must reduce the amount of plastic shipped overseas by putting it in the regular garbage instead of the recycle bin. That's the reality. Why does the US/California make it seem like recycling is a magic trick to save the planet?

> Why does the US/California make it seem like recycling is a magic trick to save the planet? Because it's the most profitable step of the Reduce, Reuse, Recycle, [some people add other entries] chain, so it's in their interests to pretend the other steps don't exist. If I buy a bottle of water packed in plastic and don't worry about it because I assume it's recyclable and therefore "of zero net impact" (also not tru…

I interpret the grift a little differently.

A lot of the messaging — paid for by the fossil fuels industry — is "we're all in this together." Image of countless families sorting their plastic bottles or whatever.

Don't look around the corner at industry generating a magnitude larger amount of waste. Are you doing your part?

They used messaging to make their problem our problem.

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#222

Post by pahbloo » Tue, May 03, 2022, 1:46 PM UTC

Not the kind of garbage collection I expected a discussion on HN about.

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#223

Post by honkdaddy » Tue, May 03, 2022, 1:58 PM UTC

throwaway290 wrote: post #219

strken wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use (used) straws a few times a year when getting a treat like a milkshake. Now every time I get a milkshake, I get either a tooth-chipping metal thing or a limp paper tube that breaks. You can't really drink a milkshake out of a cup, it's bizarre. I dare you to find a less significant source of pollution in my day to day life that's more inconvenient to ban. Perhaps clothes pegs or shoelaces? The list is short.

Is there a condition that prevents you from drinking milkshake from a cup directly? Or do you often find yourself walking while drinking and want to avoid spilling the drink on yourself?

Hav you ever tried? It just doesn't work very well. A lot of milkshakes begin to split pretty shortly after being made, part of the utility of the straw is to stir it up as you drink. It can be done, the experience is just a lot worse.

And don't forget the whipped cream! There's just not a good way to sip from something with a cream topping without getting am embarrassing face full.

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#224

Post by hbn » Tue, May 03, 2022, 2:04 PM UTC

newaccount74 wrote: post #201

cortesoft wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could play this game with almost every product... I am sure there are many things that you use and like to use that I never use, but it isn't fair for me to just say, "Well it isn't important to me so that means it isn't important to anyone". Almost every product we produce, people could 'manage just fine' without... we can always just point to a time before the thing was invented and say, "Look, people managed ju…

When they banned plastic straws in the EU, all of the sudden two reusable replacement products appeared on the market: Glass straws and stainless steel straws. They are such an upgrade to plastic straws that I don't understand why we haven't been using them all along.

They're absolutely not an upgrade to plastic straws. I don't like the feeling of a hard material clanking against my teeth every time I take a sip.

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#225

Post by throwaway290 » Tue, May 03, 2022, 2:08 PM UTC

honkdaddy wrote: post #223

throwaway290 wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a condition that prevents you from drinking milkshake from a cup directly? Or do you often find yourself walking while drinking and want to avoid spilling the drink on yourself?

Hav you ever tried? It just doesn't work very well. A lot of milkshakes begin to split pretty shortly after being made, part of the utility of the straw is to stir it up as you drink. It can be done, the experience is just a lot worse. And don't forget the whipped cream! There's just not a good way to sip from something with a cream topping without getting am embarrassing face full.

I see, I never have cream toppings so maybe that's that...

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#226

Post by hbn » Tue, May 03, 2022, 2:11 PM UTC

strken wrote: post #206

pg314 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but has imposed huge and everyday annoyances on everyone Not on everyone. I can't remember the last time I used a straw, I manage to drink from a glass or a cup just fine. Is it really a huge annoyance for you? I understand that for some people (e.g. people with Parkinson's or a broken jaw) straws are a necessity, but most people should be able to manage just fine without them. It's true that there are bigger contr…

I use (used) straws a few times a year when getting a treat like a milkshake. Now every time I get a milkshake, I get either a tooth-chipping metal thing or a limp paper tube that breaks. You can't really drink a milkshake out of a cup, it's bizarre. I dare you to find a less significant source of pollution in my day to day life that's more inconvenient to ban. Perhaps clothes pegs or shoelaces? The list is short.

I'm convinced that most people's ideas of "environmental action" is self-flagellation. i.e. "if we're all more miserable, it must mean we're sacrificing and making progress for the greater good"

We banned straws because everyone saw that picture of a turtle with a straw through its nose, meanwhile other countries are dumping millions of tons of plastic into the ocean that absolutely dwarfs the pollution plastic straws could ever hope to make. It's like both of your legs have just been cut off, you're bleeding to death, and someone puts a bandaid over a pin prick on your shoulder, and pats themselves on the back for saving you.

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#227

Post by wildmanx » Tue, May 03, 2022, 2:24 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #214

lisper wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But plastics are not made from atmospheric CO2, they are made from fossil hydrocarbons, i.e. from oil.

Not all plastics are made from fossil fuels, and photochemsyn was suggesting: “making plastics from biomass carbon sources or from direct air capture”

The overwhelming majority is. So much that it's not even worth discussing the rest since it makes it look like it's not all that bad. Yes, it is that bad.

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#228

Post by wildmanx » Tue, May 03, 2022, 2:26 PM UTC

lazyier wrote: post #167

balaji1 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You must reduce the amount of plastic shipped overseas by putting it in the regular garbage instead of the recycle bin. That's the reality. Why does the US/California make it seem like recycling is a magic trick to save the planet?

> That's the reality. Why does the US/California make it seem like recycling is a magic trick to save the planet? Because propaganda has more impact than the truth.

1. Profit 2. Shifts blame to the consumer -- if you don't recycle it's you who's bad and destroying the planet 3. Plastic is cheap. Alternatives are more expensive and less convenient. So let's try to fix the symptom instead of the root cause.

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#229

Post by lisper » Tue, May 03, 2022, 3:12 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #214

lisper wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But plastics are not made from atmospheric CO2, they are made from fossil hydrocarbons, i.e. from oil.

Not all plastics are made from fossil fuels, and photochemsyn was suggesting: “making plastics from biomass carbon sources or from direct air capture”

That's true, but it misses the point rather badly. A big reason that CO2 is a problem is that it is very stable. Getting it out of the atmosphere at scale requires vast amounts of energy. So if your goal is to reduce the amount of atmospheric CO2 (and if it's not then you've essentially given up on the future of civilization) it is much better not to let the carbon get into the atmosphere in the first place. Carbon in plastic is already sequestered. Dumping it back into the atmosphere is not progress.

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#230

Post by ZeroGravitas » Tue, May 03, 2022, 4:16 PM UTC

dmurray wrote: post #212

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not making a claim about the price of oil for burning rising though. I'm saying the money spent on noncombusted fossil fuels funds climate change denial just as much as the burned stuff does. Is it the carbon that's the problem or the groups that have prevented a carbon fee being enacted for decades that is the problem?

> Is it the carbon that's the problem or the groups that have prevented a carbon fee being enacted for decades that is the problem? The carbon. It's definitely the carbon. If we collectively stop having economic incentives to burn fossil fuels, the political side will sort itself out. We could improve the economics either by having cheaper alternative energy supply like solar power, or more expensive demand like plas…

So you recognize that the carbon is bad for us collectively, and you think we'd be fine if the incentives were sorted out. So you're agreeing with me?

But you think the 'politics' is easy once we have renewables or carbon fees imposed via legislation.

Let's all hope that none of those things became very political around 3 decades ago, because that would be bad. And then wed be in a weird catch-22 were we can only do the easy bits once we sort the politics out.