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Bitcoin value falls from above $33 to below $3

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Re: Bitcoin value falls from above $33 to below $3

#141

Post by rb2k_ »

WA wrote: post #139
rb2k_ wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought iTunes gift card codes for the US store. While there is an iTunes store in Germany, some of the apps aren't available (e.g. TV Station apps that I could use with a VPN) and with the current euro/usd ration, the US store is cheaper.

This is even more useful for renting US movies, because the German iTunes movie store completely sucks. I hate it that there's no good streaming service in Germany. Or do you know one?

Not that I know of. I usually use "unblock us" (http://blog.marc-seeger.de/2011/04/07/hulu-and-iplayer-outsi...), but I guess that's mainly for TV series rather than movies.

Re: Bitcoin value falls from above $33 to below $3

#142

Post by Jem »

dolphenstein wrote: post #136
runn1ng wrote: post #79

Every bitcoin opposer repeats, that the money will artificially start going up and that is why it will crash. Right now, it is going down, for a long time. So that is not why it will fail. It will fail because noone actually needs it. It has no real value over other means of electronically exchanging money - paypal, for example, is much faster, easier to use and, dwhile it is not free, thanks to the wild exchange rat…

Value is arbitrary. None of the major world fiat currencies have any inherent value. They are backed by nothing. Reminds me of an episode of This American Life. Brazil's currency was down the toilet, so they invented a new currency and tricked the populace into thinking it had value. http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/423/t...

On a similar vein, I recommend Terry Pratchett's 'Making Money'.

Re: Bitcoin value falls from above $33 to below $3

#144

Post by Tichy »

runn1ng wrote: post #79

Every bitcoin opposer repeats, that the money will artificially start going up and that is why it will crash. Right now, it is going down, for a long time. So that is not why it will fail. It will fail because noone actually needs it. It has no real value over other means of electronically exchanging money - paypal, for example, is much faster, easier to use and, dwhile it is not free, thanks to the wild exchange rat…

PayPal is definitely not faster and easier to use, it is a huge PITA.

Re: Bitcoin value falls from above $33 to below $3

#145

Post by Tichy »

dpark wrote: post #60
jerguismi wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I guess that most startups are pyramid scams, since the founders (early adopters) end up controlling massive proportion of the total worth of the company.

If the startup founders create the company specifically to sell a worthless product to investors, then yeah, it's a scam. Also Bitcoin is not a company, any more than US Dollar is.

How is BitCoin worthless? It's a tool that can be used for a variety of things.

Re: Bitcoin value falls from above $33 to below $3

#146

Post by epscylonb »

jerf wrote: post #42
joshontheweb wrote: post #40

Is this really a bad thing? Now people can stop hoarding them and start really using them as currency. It never really mattered what they were worth unless you were holding onto them. If you use bitcoins to enable transactions only and keep your money in real dollars then it can be pretty useful.

It is if the only reason that they have value in the first place was the hoarding and speculating, which seems a reasonable interpretation of events to date. A currency of no value is not useful for trade. I mean that "if" as a true logical statement, not an implied assertion that it must be true. (I do believe that, but I'm not asserting it right now, because I'm not defending it.)

Bitcoins utility is a factor in its value.

True, speculation and hoarding dominates its usage at the moment but there is still potential.

Re: Bitcoin value falls from above $33 to below $3

#147

Post by netcan »

adgar wrote: post #125
netcan wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using a currency as a means of payment is its main purpose. Using it to store value is also important, but secondary. Obviously some people where using it as an investment (which is kind of a store of value), but probably not the same people. Anyway, a currency that people buy to use in particular markets is possibly a way that money got started in the first place. People traded for a currency to use in a (physical)…

> If bitcoin became commonly used as a way of transacting, but not of storing value or denominating prices it could still be a good enough starting point. Even if the only markets in which it was "commonly used as a way of transacting" were illegal ones, as a means of money laundering? Is that really a "good enough starting point," a way for drug dealers to clean their money?

I'm not sure that makes any difference. I'm not sure how big this market is, but it could plausibly be big enough. It would probably leak into other markets too. Drug dealers comfortable with bitcoin might also buy shoes with bitcoin etc.

Re: Bitcoin value falls from above $33 to below $3

#148

Post by nhaehnle »

dolphenstein wrote: post #136
runn1ng wrote: post #79

Every bitcoin opposer repeats, that the money will artificially start going up and that is why it will crash. Right now, it is going down, for a long time. So that is not why it will fail. It will fail because noone actually needs it. It has no real value over other means of electronically exchanging money - paypal, for example, is much faster, easier to use and, dwhile it is not free, thanks to the wild exchange rat…

Value is arbitrary. None of the major world fiat currencies have any inherent value. They are backed by nothing. Reminds me of an episode of This American Life. Brazil's currency was down the toilet, so they invented a new currency and tricked the populace into thinking it had value. http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/423/t...

The price level is more or less arbitrary, but the value of fiat money is not just a shared hallucination. It ultimately comes from taxes. MMTers say that Taxes Drive Money: http://neweconomicperspectives.blogspot.com/2011/07/mmp-blog...

Some anthropologists say that this is how money got started in the first place around the palaces in ancient Egypt. In more modern history, there are stark examples of how "taxes drive money" really does work to monetize an economy; search for "Hut taxes".

Re: Bitcoin value falls from above $33 to below $3

#149

Post by anty »

efnx wrote: post #69
Murkin wrote: post #63

Can someone give a concrete example of themselves using Bitcoins for something other than speculative trade ?

You can buy magic cards at abugames.com and electronics at newegg.com (through a proxy) using bitcoin.

Thanks, I just bought some cards using bitcoins to complete my Unglued collection! My first bitcoin transaction for real goods!

Re: Bitcoin value falls from above $33 to below $3

#150

Post by hippich »

verroq wrote: post #127
hippich wrote: post #124

Bitcoin is something completely new and different. It is like open source software. Until people really understand it, it will be toy for geeks with similar market coverage and price. (or someone find design bug and we can forget about it) Biggest hurdle when using bitcoins is not it's high/low price, but rather fluctuation. Fluctuation happens because too many speculate it and not trade with it (well.. currency trad…

No I think it's because bitcoin's reputation had been thoroughly trashed due how much the early adopters made off with. Any mention of bitcoin now just leaves a sour aftertaste.

another one...

who cares? Do you care federal reserve guys can print as many dollars for themselves? Does it prevent you from using dollars to buy stuff in walmart?

Difference from FED is that it happens to bitcoin only once - during initial distribution. After all coins "printed" - no more coins will be thrown into circulation.

Initial distribution have to be made somehow. And I believe people who invested their time and money earlier have to be paid accordingly.

Read paper. This is not money question. This is technology question.

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