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4chan's Chris Poole: Facebook & Google Are Doing It Wrong

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Re: 4chan's Chris Poole: Facebook & Google Are Doing It Wrong

#121

Post by toyg »

crc wrote: post #120
toyg wrote: post #76

The problem with the multiple-vs-unique-ID debate is that people tend to ignore what these systems are really built for: data mining, behavioural analysis, targeted advertising etc. Users will agree with moot that separate identities are better and safer, but this is not how the real FB/Google customers see it; advertisers and marketeers want to know that user-A is an engineer AND loves cooking AND has a pet AND goes…

> I just think this point tends to be overlooked when talking about "social" websites, almost like it was not polite to point out where these businesses make their money. I am not sure that this is overlooked. I think most people know it is as so obviously true that it doesn't need restating anymore.

The way moot promoted "the Twitter way", I find it hard to believe. Twitter's multiple-disjointed-throwaway-identities model is completely useless to advertisers, and as such it will never be adopted by commercial websites on the same scale as the G+/FB model (unless you prescribe it by law).

Re: 4chan's Chris Poole: Facebook & Google Are Doing It Wrong

#122

Post by TeMPOraL »

Tsagadai wrote: post #96
artursapek wrote: post #37

Identity is prismatic, but the faces of that prism aren't disjointed. They're all part of the same whole and for this reason I'm not sure his metaphor works with his point about how we present ourselves differently in different contexts. I've always used my real name on everything I do since I got in trouble in high school for being part of a group prank under a pseudonym. My father told me that unless I want what I…

The problem is more about contexts. There are some things which exist on social networks that you may not want to be shared. If you cannot separate the contexts in your life then this may cause serious problems. Think about your job. Depending on your workplace, it could be a huge disadvantage to get found out as a geek. You could get overlooked for promotion because you "play with toys" or "spend a lot of time playi…

Relevant xkcd that also perfectly summarizes my personal opinion on the topic:

http://xkcd.com/137/

Re: 4chan's Chris Poole: Facebook & Google Are Doing It Wrong

#123

Post by toyg »

slowpoke wrote: post #112
SoftwareMaven wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google cares because it allows them to correlate all that juicy information you give them online with all those things you interact with offline. Together, these will combine into more targeted advertising (or "direct-to-individual marketing"). There is a HUGE financial incentive to force people into using their real names.

>There is a HUGE financial incentive to force people into using their real names. "Financial incentive" is not, or rather, should not be a valid argument, ever. Especially not for infringing on fundamental principles of personal rights and liberties. We (as in, the privacy/anonymity advocates) have always known that Google/Facebook wants to profit. What we question is why that is any justification for the shit they a…

Unfortunately, "financial incentives" are the basis for any business. Are you arguing that Google and Facebook should be run as charities, or by the State? Or should they simply shut down their social networks and tracking, including Like buttons etc? I'm not criticizing, i'd like to know the alternatives.

Re: 4chan's Chris Poole: Facebook & Google Are Doing It Wrong

#124

Post by danmaz74 »

toyg wrote: post #76

The problem with the multiple-vs-unique-ID debate is that people tend to ignore what these systems are really built for: data mining, behavioural analysis, targeted advertising etc. Users will agree with moot that separate identities are better and safer, but this is not how the real FB/Google customers see it; advertisers and marketeers want to know that user-A is an engineer AND loves cooking AND has a pet AND goes…

It looks like a social network that allowed you to actively use multiple identities with one single login - what many people already do using special software, but in a cumbersome way - would hit the jackpot: Give users what they want, and give customers what they want too. If G+ did this, it would REALLY differentiate itself from FB.

Re: 4chan's Chris Poole: Facebook & Google Are Doing It Wrong

#125

Post by burgerbrain »

molesy wrote: post #116
suivix wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's baffling that you're getting downvoted for accusing a site of being government-operated with 0 evidence, and then you put down HN users? Really?

Naw, that was me. He just said moot runs the world's largest CP site and that's probably not a good reason to listen to him. This is the internet, so pastebin is as good as any other evidence: http://pastebin.com/fPW1myL9 Of course that doesn't say NSA but my tinfoil is strong. Seriously, if you don't believe that these large social sites that popped out of nowhere with no obvious need and no chance of profitability…

That paste doesn't pass even the most basic of sniff tests.

"it has brought bans and thread/post deletions on /b/ for anything except CSA trafficking to a screeching halt"

Is trivially false, and the statement:

"When I knew only guilty people used 4chan (and primarily /b/), knowledge of the ongoing sting operation wasn't terribly concerning to me. But now, 4chan is going completely mainstream."

Is absurd. Nobody with any sort of familiarity with the place years ago would ever believe "only guilty people used 4chan". That shit is and always has been the minority. Furthermore, anybody involved in such an operation would realize that "innocent mainstream" type people stumbling across that isn't going to get those people hauled into court.

No. That paste is a troll, and either you've been trolled, or you are a troll and I've been trolled.

Now, do I believe 4chan is cooperating with government investigations? Of course I do.. but that ain't evidence of it.

Re: 4chan's Chris Poole: Facebook & Google Are Doing It Wrong

#126

Post by burgerbrain »

burgerbrain wrote: post #98
gnu6 wrote: post #29

Chris Poole operates the world's most popular child pornography web site. Let's all listen to what he has to say.

That's like saying Comcast is the largest child pornography delivery service in the US.

gnu6:

Try again.

"Internet Service Providers have argued against being classified as a "common carrier" and, so far, have managed to do so."

ISPs are not common carriers, however the extent to which they are protected websites such as 4chan are also protected.

Re: 4chan's Chris Poole: Facebook & Google Are Doing It Wrong

#127

Post by slowpoke »

toyg wrote: post #123
slowpoke wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is a HUGE financial incentive to force people into using their real names. "Financial incentive" is not, or rather, should not be a valid argument, ever. Especially not for infringing on fundamental principles of personal rights and liberties. We (as in, the privacy/anonymity advocates) have always known that Google/Facebook wants to profit. What we question is why that is any justification for the shit they a…

Unfortunately, "financial incentives" are the basis for any business. Are you arguing that Google and Facebook should be run as charities, or by the State? Or should they simply shut down their social networks and tracking, including Like buttons etc? I'm not criticizing, i'd like to know the alternatives.

I'm saying that "financial incentives" is no valid argument to excuse the stuff that G+ and Facebook do, and so far it is the only. Do we justify all shady, if not borderline criminal business with "financial incentives"?

Besides, there have been non-intrusive ways to implement Like/+1 Buttons. heise.de for example did. You might remember what Facebook did - threaten to sue. With reasons that I cannot describe as anything but bullshit.

Re: 4chan's Chris Poole: Facebook & Google Are Doing It Wrong

#128

Post by demallien »

bteitelb wrote: post #114

Poole is spot on. I'll add as a corollary, that users also don't want real-time communication that is a mirror. This is one of the reasons that videoconferencing has failed repeatedly since 1964. The entire cosmetics and fashion industries exist to provide avatars for when we must endure the gaze. And yet, we continue to work on videoconferencing and tele-immersion. Sigh.

What on earth makes you think that video conferencing has failed? I might not use it for business calls, or to organise an evening out with friends, but I use Skype video every weekend to catch up with my family... Sure, it doesn't replace every type of telephone call, but it certainly does replace some.

Re: 4chan's Chris Poole: Facebook & Google Are Doing It Wrong

#129

Post by spot »

danmaz74 wrote: post #124
toyg wrote: post #76

The problem with the multiple-vs-unique-ID debate is that people tend to ignore what these systems are really built for: data mining, behavioural analysis, targeted advertising etc. Users will agree with moot that separate identities are better and safer, but this is not how the real FB/Google customers see it; advertisers and marketeers want to know that user-A is an engineer AND loves cooking AND has a pet AND goes…

It looks like a social network that allowed you to actively use multiple identities with one single login - what many people already do using special software, but in a cumbersome way - would hit the jackpot: Give users what they want, and give customers what they want too. If G+ did this, it would REALLY differentiate itself from FB.

what makes you think the general population cares about this vs the hackers that this article is about? are there any statistics to show this is more than a 1% phenomenon? i don't think my mom cares.

Re: 4chan's Chris Poole: Facebook & Google Are Doing It Wrong

#130

Post by bmelton »

walropodes wrote: post #107
bmelton wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I interpret it more like "If you wouldn't want your mother to see you do it, then you probably shouldn't." For what it's worth, while I absolutely love my civil liberties and freedoms, I do believe in accountability for one's actions. If I say something indefensible against a minority group, I believe that I should be ready to bear the consequences of my racism. I can either defend my actions with an intelligent argu…

> I interpret it more like "If you wouldn't want your mother to see you do it, then you probably shouldn't." That pretty much means the same thing

I very strongly disagree. They mean completely different things.
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