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The $440M software error at Knight Capital (2019)

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Re: The $440M software error at Knight Capital (2019)

#151

Post by astrange »

ChrisClark wrote: post #15
SilasX wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same is true for blockchain smartcontracts, which have similar catastrophic consequences.

That truly is scary to me. I can easily* write advanced Solidity and could try to make something big. But I won't, because I know I would not be able to handle the stress and responsibility. One tiny logic error and millions lost. Thanks but no thanks. *The fact I believe I could easily do it is probably exactly why I'd end up making some huge mistake. ;)

I don't think I could, since the language was designed by amateurs after no research into safe programming, and is only being improved one gigantic loss at a time.

Maybe if you could translate from Coq.

Re: The $440M software error at Knight Capital (2019)

#152

Post by MEMORYC_RRUPTED »

throwyawayyyy wrote: post #46

Random, but I interviewed at Knight Capital for a software engineering position a few weeks before this all went down. I was in London, so the interview was done over the phone. Picture me in the evening, handwriting C to solve some problem (the fog of time too thick to remember what that problem was), then reading out what I'd written, semicolons and all, to the interviewer. Because of course there was no shared doc…

> I did very badly. But then, so did they.

Thank you for sharing, this started of my day very well, had a hearty chuckle.

Re: The $440M software error at Knight Capital (2019)

#153

Post by killingtime74 »

anusuyaceg wrote: post #97
throwyawayyyy wrote: post #46

Random, but I interviewed at Knight Capital for a software engineering position a few weeks before this all went down. I was in London, so the interview was done over the phone. Picture me in the evening, handwriting C to solve some problem (the fog of time too thick to remember what that problem was), then reading out what I'd written, semicolons and all, to the interviewer. Because of course there was no shared doc…

Before all these code sharing sites were popular, that's how all the phone screens were done. I had to write my code on paper and dictate on phone. this was before 2011-2012

Did they not have email in 2011? Seems really difficult to dictate code

Re: The $440M software error at Knight Capital (2019)

#154

Post by smcl »

kevstev wrote: post #45
fullsend wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate your comment about pay. Recruiters will often tell me "it's finance so of course the pay will be substantial." Then when we get to talking numbers they're like "300k a year". Oh, you mean the going rate at a FAANG? And I have to move to New York or Chicago, work more hours, and actively work for people who I know are taking home paychecks with 7+ zeroes on them? Come on. Sometimes it's 400 plus bonus or…

Yeah, pay at the big banks is shit really, especially when you consider the utter lack of work/life balance. I left in 2013 making 150k, which was supposed to be supplemented by a ~40% bonus for the level I was at, but each year was "well its been a tough year..." and after getting a token amount one year, and then zeroes the next 2, after working 50-60 hour weeks, I was like I am not only done with this place, but t…

>> Then when we get to talking numbers they're like "300k a year".

> Yeah, pay at the big banks is shit really

I would say that a $300,000/year salary is really quite far from "shit". Many jobs are stressful, demanding or unrewarding but rarely do they provide such a salary, and quite often they offer hourly wages hovering around minimum wage with poor benefits. It's worth taking a step back once in a while to think about this, because it sounds like some people are a little out of touch with how the majority of the world lives

Re: The $440M software error at Knight Capital (2019)

#155

Post by killingtime74 »

jmyeet wrote: post #84

What's amazing to me is that there are many software engineers here who can recognize how errors like this can so easily creep into software (some would say they're inevitable in any sufficiently complex software) but they still somehow think immutable smart contracts on blockchains are somehow still the future. Crazy.

They know but they don’t care. Crypto is get rich quick

Re: The $440M software error at Knight Capital (2019)

#156

Post by alexander-litty »

vcxy wrote: post #116
alexander-litty wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my lifetime, “parentheses” has been the canonical way to refer to () in the US. “Brackets” is an umbrella term that can describe one or all of (), {}, and []. If you’re in a context where only one of the bracket types would normally be used, you can just call them “brackets.” Since many people never really use [] and {}, “brackets” casually refers to (). To disambiguate, you can call () “open brackets”, [] “square…

> Since many people never really use [] and {}, “brackets” casually refers to (). I have never heard anyone call () "brackets". Is it more regional than just the US maybe?

Fascinating! While I’ve definitely heard “brackets” used in the midwest occasionally, “parenthesis” is the standard term by far.

Re: The $440M software error at Knight Capital (2019)

#157

Post by quickthrower2 »

kevstev wrote: post #11
bfm wrote: post #2

The OP details how poor software engineering practices brought down a 1.4B market marker with 1400 employees in 2012. Some of the issues mentioned include: - Keeping synthetic test data generation as part of a production build. - Keeping dead code for years. - Re-purposing a feature flag. - Refactoring without regression tests. - Manual deployments without peer reviews. They forgot to update one of their servers with…

I worked in algo trading for years, eventually got out because quite frankly the level of risk I was carrying on my shoulders everyday for what I was being paid were just way out of whack, I at least personally never got the huge pay days that people talked about until after I left finance for more pure tech. Interestingly, I worked at Knight and my team pioneered trying to blow up the firm, but that was in 2004, and…

Weirdly a market maker near me paid less than competitive wages for a dev. I think they rest on laurels that people want to work in finance badly.

Re: The $440M software error at Knight Capital (2019)

#158

Post by quickthrower2 »

nikanj wrote: post #13
randomhodler84 wrote: post #4

Back in the day $440M loss due to coding error was a landmark warning case. How could this happen?? In 2021 alone something like $10B was lost due to bugs in defi land. Something about the worst possible thing could happen tends to happen eventually and it gets worse every passing year.

Those $440M were lost by rich people who had invested in a hedge fund, not poor people who bought crypto lottery tickets in the hopes of getting rich quick

Also a fuck load of money had been printed in the mean time. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2SL

Re: The $440M software error at Knight Capital (2019)

#160

Post by 4jsfgja5aj »

renewiltord wrote: post #143
22SAS wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all about making $$ for the firm. If the strategies developed are very profitable then 7-figures is definitely reachable for the researchers at a prop trading firm.

7 figs is 6 zeroes in his lingo, right? My man is looking for 8 figures.

Yes, exactly, and nomenclature borrowed from the parent. (This is another throwaway, and I am responding.)

> > "...all about making $$ for the firm. If the strategies developed..."

The topic here is on offers to new hires -- not value delivered after time and work invested. Offers at market rate -- even in the FAANG world -- are not at 7 figures (6 zeros), definitely not at 10x that, and certainly not before the new employee has done anything worthwhile for the firm. There are individuals who do get such offers, but they are rare, they have done remarkable things previously, and they have a reputation they can bring to any conversation about compensation. Their market is not representative.

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