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An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

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Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#131
post #82

The author is conflating two separate issues. Their main point is at the end: > Banning plastic straws is stupid. They're probably right that throwing out plastic straws is better than throwing them in the recycling, assuming that plastic straws can't be efficiently recycled. That being said, many US recycling utilities typically sort the recycling on shore, and plastics that are too small to be efficiently identifie…

> spending a bit more to get good quality paper straws

I am yet to see one of these

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#132
post #89
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But it's an odd hill to die on, given that basically all straws before 1960 were made of paper. The fact that all pre-1960 straws were paper does not imply that paper straws, let alone paper straws today, do not suck.

Ivory combs are pretty sweet apparently, they're a lot nicer to use than wooden or plastic combs... I'm not seeing much outrage over the fact that we're being forced not to use them in the modern world. People adjust - paper straws are servicable for most purposes, for things like bubble tea reusable straws are a reasonable investment (if you're having it often).

> People adjust - paper straws are servicable for most purposes

What purposes are "most purposes"? They don't work for shakes, they don't work for anything that takes more than a minute, etc.

Given a choice, people pick plastic straws. Who are you to say that plastic straws aren't better?

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Related; In mid 19th century, Entire neighborhoods of Chicago were lifted up on jackscrews to raise the street above the swamp: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raising_of_Chicago

We were able to lift entire neighbourhoods in the 19th century but now we can't even build houses...

We can still build them now. It's a question of whether we're allowed.

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#134
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You must reduce the amount of plastic shipped overseas by putting it in the regular garbage instead of the recycle bin. That's the reality. Why does the US/California make it seem like recycling is a magic trick to save the planet?

> Why does the US/California make it seem like recycling is a magic trick to save the planet? Because it's the most profitable step of the Reduce, Reuse, Recycle, [some people add other entries] chain, so it's in their interests to pretend the other steps don't exist. If I buy a bottle of water packed in plastic and don't worry about it because I assume it's recyclable and therefore "of zero net impact" (also not tru…

"We can consume our way out of problems caused by overconsumption." — well said

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#135
post #132
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ivory combs are pretty sweet apparently, they're a lot nicer to use than wooden or plastic combs... I'm not seeing much outrage over the fact that we're being forced not to use them in the modern world. People adjust - paper straws are servicable for most purposes, for things like bubble tea reusable straws are a reasonable investment (if you're having it often).

> People adjust - paper straws are servicable for most purposes What purposes are "most purposes"? They don't work for shakes, they don't work for anything that takes more than a minute, etc. Given a choice, people pick plastic straws. Who are you to say that plastic straws aren't better?

As I mentioned in a sibling comment (specifically talking about bubble tea) metal straws are an excellent and, generally, superior alternative.

People don't pick plastic straws - companies pick plastic straws and they stir up anti-environmental outrage to reinforce their fiscally based decision.

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like the study folks are quoting is a peer reviewed article in Nature: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-22939-w?fbclid=Iw... It states "Over three-quarters of the GPGP mass was carried by debris larger than 5 cm and at least 46% was comprised of fishing nets."

Ah, good catch! That does agree with the article, so maybe that's where the claim comes from and not directly from the Greenpeace article. There's still a difference between "quantity dumped per year " and "total amount measured right now". It seems like ghost gear is not a large fraction of the plastic entering the ocean, but it a large fraction of the accumulated large pieces in the garbage patch. I presume that's…

Here's a NOAA page on the topic

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/hazards/marinedebris/plastics-...

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#137
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why - we've managed it fine and I've got a terrible memory. I've got a messanger bag and usually just keep a metal straw in it for whenever we want some. A fair number of people carry around reusable coffee travel mugs and those are far more of a pain in terms of size and weight. I'd clarify, I'm living in Canada so there might be some cultural differences here.

So you always have your messenger bag on you? Or you always know ahead of time that you're going to bubble tea and bring your messenger bag? What do you do after you use it? Do you wash it after use or put it in your bag dirty to wash later? Not trying to argue but surprised people actually go through the trouble. > A fair number of people carry around reusable coffee travel mugs Yeah but that's usually in order to c…

I indeed always have my messenger bag[1] on me - after using it, assuming I'm not carrying the drink container home with me (or to someplace I can easily rinse it) I'll usually wrap it in a paper napkin - that's pretty rare though, usually by the time I can dispose of the drinking vessel I'm able to wash the straw out.

Reusable bubble tea straws are also small enough that they'll easily fit in most purses - the length might be a bit too much for clutches but if your purse is big enough for a phone chances are the bubble tea straw will fit just fine.

1. Technically it's a bag of holding https://gadgetsin.com/the-bag-of-holding-messenger-bag.htm

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#138
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why - we've managed it fine and I've got a terrible memory. I've got a messanger bag and usually just keep a metal straw in it for whenever we want some. A fair number of people carry around reusable coffee travel mugs and those are far more of a pain in terms of size and weight. I'd clarify, I'm living in Canada so there might be some cultural differences here.

coffee is an everyday thing for many people. Bubble tea is a 1-4 times a year thing for me. I prefer not to carry a bag. carrying around a straw is less practical than just not having bubble tea.

I think that's totally reasonable yea - reusable items aren't environmentally sane for infrequent purchases - if you drink coffee a few times a year it'd be silly to get a travel mug, similar to bubble tea straws. So, on the other hand, if the straw came with a 5cent disposal fee it probably wouldn't significantly impact your purchase.

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#139
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At this speed of advancement in less than 100 years I am sure we will have figure out something for the plastic we have generated meanwhile. The problem is that today's plastic, in far less than 100 years, is reasonably likely to be finely divided into small numbers of molecule sized chunks, and spread evenly throughout the entire biological systems of the planet. We find microplastic in ants in the middle of untou…

Your implied plan (doing less of what made the problem in the first place) seems like more of a stretch to me. It would be nice, but I can’t see many countries giving up plastic. It’s too useful. I think focusing international collaboration efforts on better waste/pollution management (eg getting more waste plastic into properly managed landfills) seems a lot more plausible.

I may not have explicitly stated it in the parent comment, but it's quite explicit other places.

Either a system is sustainable or it's not. If it is, it can continue forever. And, if it's not, it won't. One way or another, it won't, though you can pick the method early on, and later, reality will force it on you. The history of civilization collapse is the history of this reality being forced on groups of people who thought it didn't apply to them.

Plastics in their current form won't exist as new products in 1000 years (though the current stuff probably won't have broken down entirely). Either something far less vile and toxic to "all life" will have been found, or, more likely, industrial civilization will have done the usual "overshoot and collapse" thing, so we won't have the technology to make them in their current form then.

None of that changes the fact that plastic are toxic to life now - and, so, we ought not be using nearly as much of them. I don't mind "durable plastics" quite as much, but the bulk of it is single use, and splitting out all our recycling, I'm regularly reminded of just how much plastic one cannot avoid, even when trying to minimize it.

If the reality (which it probably is...) is that people won't stop doing anything until the external reality we live in forces their hand, the outcomes are almost always far worse than if we decide to stop doing those things earlier.

Plastics are convenient, certainly. They're also a horrid biotoxin that has, quite literally, blanketed the planet in the form of microplastics. We have no idea what to do with the stuff, and burying it only works for so long (and if you're really careful to not let the bits and pieces leech into groundwater). But, I mean, at least you can get water without having to use a drinking fountain!

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#140
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but has imposed huge and everyday annoyances on everyone Not on everyone. I can't remember the last time I used a straw, I manage to drink from a glass or a cup just fine. Is it really a huge annoyance for you? I understand that for some people (e.g. people with Parkinson's or a broken jaw) straws are a necessity, but most people should be able to manage just fine without them. It's true that there are bigger contr…

We could play this game with almost every product... I am sure there are many things that you use and like to use that I never use, but it isn't fair for me to just say, "Well it isn't important to me so that means it isn't important to anyone". Almost every product we produce, people could 'manage just fine' without... we can always just point to a time before the thing was invented and say, "Look, people managed ju…

If you've used them before - how do the sippy cups tend to work for you? I've always been curious how they are for folks with sensitive teeth.
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