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An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

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Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#121

Post by legitster »

andjd wrote: post #82

The author is conflating two separate issues. Their main point is at the end: > Banning plastic straws is stupid. They're probably right that throwing out plastic straws is better than throwing them in the recycling, assuming that plastic straws can't be efficiently recycled. That being said, many US recycling utilities typically sort the recycling on shore, and plastics that are too small to be efficiently identifie…

> Their ire should probably be directed at the establishments they frequent for buying cheap and terrible paper straws instead of spending a bit more to get good quality paper straws

In our area, biodegradable plastic straws were already a popular option but the plastic ban included them.

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#122

Post by Syonyk »

balaji1 wrote: post #118
Syonyk wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The solution is to actually recycle plastic, build circular supply chains, and use biodegradable materials as much as possible. This assumes that: (1) Plastic can actually be recycled. Unlike a lot of other materials, it degrades rather substantially every time you try, and plastic quality coming out of recycling isn't generally uniform enough to make anything more than the big, chunky "recycled plastic toys and be…

> You must reduce the amount of plastic shipped overseas by putting it in the regular garbage instead of the recycle bin. That's the reality. Why does the US/California make it seem like recycling is a magic trick to save the planet?

> Why does the US/California make it seem like recycling is a magic trick to save the planet?

Because it's the most profitable step of the Reduce, Reuse, Recycle, [some people add other entries] chain, so it's in their interests to pretend the other steps don't exist.

If I buy a bottle of water packed in plastic and don't worry about it because I assume it's recyclable and therefore "of zero net impact" (also not true, but implied by most of the standard recycling glossy brochures), I've helped their profits.

If I bring my own water with me, or use a water fountain or something, I've not contributed to growing the profits of all the companies in the chain of extracting oil from the ground, processing it into various precursors, making it into a cheap, flimsy plastic, pumping water out of the ground to fill that bottle, trucking it across the roads built of oil with fuel built of oil, and selling it to someone, then also the profits of dealing with the waste plastic (trash, recycling, whatever)!

Reduce (don't buy stuff in the first place) and Reuse (finding ways to have things be not-single-use) just don't have nearly the profit chain.

Pay attention to just how much rhetoric about climate/trash/etc boils down to, "We can consume our way out of problems caused by overconsumption." There are no shortage of companies happy to sell you "green" versions of whatever you might have otherwise bought - but very few people are willing to ask the question, "Should you have bought it in the first place?"

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#123

Post by telotortium »

JoshGlazebrook wrote: post #58

I don't think the answer is paper straws and I personally dislike them. They turn slimy from your saliva and usually collapse on themselves before you're done with using it. I normally end up taking multiple just to replace them halfway through drinking. More companies could go in the direction Starbucks has gone, switching their iced drink cups to "sippy cup" lids to eliminate the need for straws while maintaining a…

Compostable plastics like polylactic acid (PLA) don't decompose at room temperature, but only in industrial composters at 60 C: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polylactic_acid#:~:text=degrad.....

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#124

Post by floren »

adhesive_wombat wrote: post #57
legitster wrote: post #34

Plastic gets a bad wrap. But it's a pretty dang efficient material. It takes so little energy and material to make something very functional and resilient. I know that CO2 analyses of the replacements to plastic bags and straws has not been very kind to them. I find it commendable to encourage people to consumer less stuff, but the war on plastic straws has been a huge step back - it's done relatively little to actua…

> bad wrap Nice. Focusing on plastic bags and straws is such a transparent "something just be done: this is a thing: it must be done" response. 90% of the time, the plastic bag in question is filled with products packed in plastic[1] and half the time, the straw is stuck into a clear plastic cup to show off the frappuccino. [1]: Fruit and veg aside, why am I expected to buy a new spray bottle for every half litre of…

> Fruit and veg aside, why am I expected to buy a new spray bottle for every half litre of kitchen cleaner, say? Why can't I just buy one bottle and spray and then some kind of refill?

There's a company (whose name escapes me at the moment) which appears to be aiming for exactly this and is advertising all over the streaming services I watch. Now, clearly their ads aren't doing their job since I can't remember the name, but it's out there.

More prosaically, I've been using the same Dawn dish soap bottle for months now because I bought a giant jug of dish soap at Costco and just refill the little one as needed. I assume it'll be less waste at the end... I just wish the big jug was made out of glass or aluminum instead of plastic.

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#125

Post by floren »

Melatonic wrote: post #102

I do not understand why more restaurants do not have metal straws They already have silverware and a whole process for cleaning it and whatnot. Why not just also invest in metal straws and re-use ? It seems like it would be cheaper than even plastic straws long term. And of course less waste.

I've been given a metal straw at a restaurant. My immediate thought: how do I know this is clean on the inside? I can't see in there, it could be full of mold. I just drank from the glass instead, because I'm an able-bodied adult.

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#126

Post by serf »

ioseph wrote: post #99
thebean11 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> for things like bubble tea reusable straws are a reasonable investment You're suggesting people bring their own straws to bubble tea? That's very impractical.

How is carrying a straw (even a heavy stainless steel one) in any way shape or form impractical?

I don't know why I have to explain this.

It's not in any way/shape/form more practical to carry more things with me when the alternative is that someone hands me a disposable version of the thing at time of purchase.

Not everyone carries a bag with them -- and even if every single person on earth had a bag it'd STILL be more inconvenient for those people to waste cargo space in the bag with a straw when the alternative of being given a disposable one at time of purchase is available.

I feel like there is a misunderstanding of the word 'impractical' here.

Carrying your own straws is a lot of things -- wise, prepared, ethically-conscious, whatever -- it won't ever be practical ( practical : of or concerned with the actual doing or use of something rather than with theory and ideas. ) until the much more convenient option of being given a disposable straw at purchase time and trashing it at the end of use is no longer available to choose.

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#127

Post by floren »

JoshGlazebrook wrote: post #58

I don't think the answer is paper straws and I personally dislike them. They turn slimy from your saliva and usually collapse on themselves before you're done with using it. I normally end up taking multiple just to replace them halfway through drinking. More companies could go in the direction Starbucks has gone, switching their iced drink cups to "sippy cup" lids to eliminate the need for straws while maintaining a…

I recently went to a restaurant where the straws were literally straw (or some similar plant stem). They looked nice, held up fine, and had the pleasant taste I associate with wheat straw.

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#128

Post by solveit »

robonerd wrote: post #104
dvtrn wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boston as well, iirc. And parts of Chicago (a city that was built ontop of an actual swamp)

Related; In mid 19th century, Entire neighborhoods of Chicago were lifted up on jackscrews to raise the street above the swamp: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raising_of_Chicago

We were able to lift entire neighbourhoods in the 19th century but now we can't even build houses...

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#129

Post by playpause »

Syonyk wrote: post #116
alfor wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we are not in a position to judge what is reasonable to do over hundred or thousand of years with our current technological progression. Plastics where not really a thing 100 years ago. At our current progression I think we should avoid the big catastrophes (Nuclear war), push for developpement of poor places(get more genius) and advance technology as fast as we can. At this speed of advancement in less than…

> At this speed of advancement in less than 100 years I am sure we will have figure out something for the plastic we have generated meanwhile. The problem is that today's plastic, in far less than 100 years, is reasonably likely to be finely divided into small numbers of molecule sized chunks, and spread evenly throughout the entire biological systems of the planet. We find microplastic in ants in the middle of untou…

Your implied plan (doing less of what made the problem in the first place) seems like more of a stretch to me. It would be nice, but I can’t see many countries giving up plastic. It’s too useful. I think focusing international collaboration efforts on better waste/pollution management (eg getting more waste plastic into properly managed landfills) seems a lot more plausible.

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#130

Post by adhesive_wombat »

floren wrote: post #124
adhesive_wombat wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> bad wrap Nice. Focusing on plastic bags and straws is such a transparent "something just be done: this is a thing: it must be done" response. 90% of the time, the plastic bag in question is filled with products packed in plastic[1] and half the time, the straw is stuck into a clear plastic cup to show off the frappuccino. [1]: Fruit and veg aside, why am I expected to buy a new spray bottle for every half litre of…

> Fruit and veg aside, why am I expected to buy a new spray bottle for every half litre of kitchen cleaner, say? Why can't I just buy one bottle and spray and then some kind of refill? There's a company (whose name escapes me at the moment) which appears to be aiming for exactly this and is advertising all over the streaming services I watch. Now, clearly their ads aren't doing their job since I can't remember the na…

Right, but the default position is just small packs in disposable containers. As long as you have to make substantial efforts to so otherwise, like finding a special company or paying for Costco (and getting there, who lives in walking or cycling distance of one?), it will remain what 99.5% of people do.

And it's not even an unreasonable position for those people. Making an enormous effort to just find a bottle of soap is not sustainable.

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