An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021) • Hacker News Board

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#111

Post by kube-system » Mon, May 02, 2022, 9:37 PM UTC

jnmandal wrote: post #56

Yes, the US is a country that cannot process its own waste so it ships it overseas just to be rid of it. The solution is not to raise money and send it to the Philippines to build landfills. The solution is to actually recycle plastic, build circular supply chains, and use biodegradable materials as much as possible. If humans are to stay on this planet, in the long term we cannot just keep piling up garbage in landf…

Plastic recycling is simply not very practical in the current day. Solving that problem is certainly something we should strive for, but plastic isn't going anywhere any time soon. We need something to do with it today and the most environmentally friendly thing to do is to landfill it. If at some point in the future we have a good solution to recycle it, we'll know where to find it. But if we keep dumping it in the ocean we'll probably cause other disasters before we'd ever run out of empty space.

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#112

Post by thfuran » Mon, May 02, 2022, 9:40 PM UTC

LeanderK wrote: post #75

> And banning straws is just plain stupid. Why? We don't have them anymore in germany. People move on and new solutions get invented. Seeing a plastic straw is weird to me.

I don't think it is especially stupid in and of itself but is it an efficient use of government effort?

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#113

Post by Syonyk » Mon, May 02, 2022, 9:40 PM UTC

robonerd wrote: post #107

Syonyk wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The solution is to actually recycle plastic, build circular supply chains, and use biodegradable materials as much as possible. This assumes that: (1) Plastic can actually be recycled. Unlike a lot of other materials, it degrades rather substantially every time you try, and plastic quality coming out of recycling isn't generally uniform enough to make anything more than the big, chunky "recycled plastic toys and be…

Many kinds of plastics can't be recycled at all, not even downcycled. Thermoset plastics particularly, which includes almost everything made out of fiberglass (glass fibers in thermoset plastic matrix.) That stuff either gets thrown into a landfill, or ground up and burnt.

That most of it burns is part of why "go burn it to offset coal" came out so well in some of the lifecycle analysis for end of life program I'm familiar with:

https://www.hefty.com/sites/default/files/2021-01/Hefty-Ener...

Instead of having to pay to sort and process, you just grind it up and mix it in with the coal (or heave the bags in, I'm not sure as to the actual feed mechanism though I keep meaning to see if I can get a tour).

I'm not actually in the program area, but I know where to drop my bags of plastic to get them into the program (one of the recycling companies in the area of the program handles it, and I'm over there often enough that I'll toss a few of the bags in the back of the car if I'm going that way).

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#114

Post by mpalczewski » Mon, May 02, 2022, 9:42 PM UTC

munk-a wrote: post #97

thebean11 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> for things like bubble tea reusable straws are a reasonable investment You're suggesting people bring their own straws to bubble tea? That's very impractical.

I don't see why - we've managed it fine and I've got a terrible memory. I've got a messanger bag and usually just keep a metal straw in it for whenever we want some. A fair number of people carry around reusable coffee travel mugs and those are far more of a pain in terms of size and weight. I'd clarify, I'm living in Canada so there might be some cultural differences here.

coffee is an everyday thing for many people.

Bubble tea is a 1-4 times a year thing for me. I prefer not to carry a bag.

carrying around a straw is less practical than just not having bubble tea.

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#115

Post by thebean11 » Mon, May 02, 2022, 9:44 PM UTC

munk-a wrote: post #97

thebean11 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> for things like bubble tea reusable straws are a reasonable investment You're suggesting people bring their own straws to bubble tea? That's very impractical.

I don't see why - we've managed it fine and I've got a terrible memory. I've got a messanger bag and usually just keep a metal straw in it for whenever we want some. A fair number of people carry around reusable coffee travel mugs and those are far more of a pain in terms of size and weight. I'd clarify, I'm living in Canada so there might be some cultural differences here.

So you always have your messenger bag on you? Or you always know ahead of time that you're going to bubble tea and bring your messenger bag?

What do you do after you use it? Do you wash it after use or put it in your bag dirty to wash later? Not trying to argue but surprised people actually go through the trouble.

> A fair number of people carry around reusable coffee travel mugs

Yeah but that's usually in order to carry coffee they made at home. Not in case they decide to visit a coffee shop during the day.

I live in NYC and I'm not sure most people who are getting bubble tea knew they were going to get bubble tea when leaving their home.

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#116

Post by Syonyk » Mon, May 02, 2022, 9:47 PM UTC

alfor wrote: post #68

jnmandal wrote: post #56

Yes, the US is a country that cannot process its own waste so it ships it overseas just to be rid of it. The solution is not to raise money and send it to the Philippines to build landfills. The solution is to actually recycle plastic, build circular supply chains, and use biodegradable materials as much as possible. If humans are to stay on this planet, in the long term we cannot just keep piling up garbage in landf…

I think we are not in a position to judge what is reasonable to do over hundred or thousand of years with our current technological progression. Plastics where not really a thing 100 years ago. At our current progression I think we should avoid the big catastrophes (Nuclear war), push for developpement of poor places(get more genius) and advance technology as fast as we can. At this speed of advancement in less than…

> At this speed of advancement in less than 100 years I am sure we will have figure out something for the plastic we have generated meanwhile.

The problem is that today's plastic, in far less than 100 years, is reasonably likely to be finely divided into small numbers of molecule sized chunks, and spread evenly throughout the entire biological systems of the planet. We find microplastic in ants in the middle of untouched forestland, because it spreads so well on the wind.

> ...and advance technology as fast as we can.

It's an interesting gamble, certainly - solving the problems created by our current technological development path by pushing further down that development path.

It's just not one I expect to work. You don't generally solve problems by "doing more of what made them in the first place."

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#117

Post by thebean11 » Mon, May 02, 2022, 9:47 PM UTC

ioseph wrote: post #99

thebean11 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> for things like bubble tea reusable straws are a reasonable investment You're suggesting people bring their own straws to bubble tea? That's very impractical.

How is carrying a straw (even a heavy stainless steel one) in any way shape or form impractical?

- You'd have to know you are getting bubble tea before you leave your apartment (or always carry a metal straw)

- It's deeper than most pockets, and can poke and potentially hurt you when bending over, so you pretty much need a bag (or use a shorter straw that will get lost in your drink).

- You need to somehow clean and dry it after use, and put it back in your bag

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#118

Post by balaji1 » Mon, May 02, 2022, 9:51 PM UTC

Syonyk wrote: post #103

jnmandal wrote: post #56

Yes, the US is a country that cannot process its own waste so it ships it overseas just to be rid of it. The solution is not to raise money and send it to the Philippines to build landfills. The solution is to actually recycle plastic, build circular supply chains, and use biodegradable materials as much as possible. If humans are to stay on this planet, in the long term we cannot just keep piling up garbage in landf…

> The solution is to actually recycle plastic, build circular supply chains, and use biodegradable materials as much as possible. This assumes that: (1) Plastic can actually be recycled. Unlike a lot of other materials, it degrades rather substantially every time you try, and plastic quality coming out of recycling isn't generally uniform enough to make anything more than the big, chunky "recycled plastic toys and be…

> You must reduce the amount of plastic shipped overseas by putting it in the regular garbage instead of the recycle bin.

That's the reality. Why does the US/California make it seem like recycling is a magic trick to save the planet?

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#119

Post by jopsen » Mon, May 02, 2022, 9:52 PM UTC

legitster wrote: post #34

Plastic gets a bad wrap. But it's a pretty dang efficient material. It takes so little energy and material to make something very functional and resilient. I know that CO2 analyses of the replacements to plastic bags and straws has not been very kind to them. I find it commendable to encourage people to consumer less stuff, but the war on plastic straws has been a huge step back - it's done relatively little to actua…

> but the war on plastic straws has been a huge step back

Yeah, the straw is a prime example of bike-shedding.

So much talk and energy spent on something so unimportant.

Everybody can have an opinion about straws.

Worse it makes reasonable people argue against what is intended to be regulation to save the environment. Thus, fracturing what should otherwise be a strong public opinion that we can and must protect the environment.

Re: An illustrated guide to plastic straws (2021)

#120

Post by telotortium » Mon, May 02, 2022, 9:56 PM UTC

Melatonic wrote: post #102

I do not understand why more restaurants do not have metal straws They already have silverware and a whole process for cleaning it and whatnot. Why not just also invest in metal straws and re-use ? It seems like it would be cheaper than even plastic straws long term. And of course less waste.

Many commercial dishwashers might be specialized for certain dishes, so adding a straw washing machine would be a significant expense. In addition, I've heard that many commercial dishwashers require the dishes to be scrubbed beforehand (see https://www.webstaurantstore.com/guide/620/types-of-commerci...), and straws are quite difficult to scrub.

Given that most restaurants that go through a lot of straws want to provide the option for takeout anyway (for which you can't use metal straws), it makes sense that most restaurants don't bother.