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Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

ernestas.me

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Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#421
post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the Trackpoint, but beware. I used an old 760 years ago with OpenBSD, and after many months of using the Trackpoint, my pointer finger started to have RSI issues. (Similarly, I used a thumb trackball for a long time, and eventually my thumb started to have issues as well.) For occasional use, these things are great. Long term under heavy use, I have my doubts. It's always better to use the bigger muscles and j…

I've been using the Trackpoint for almost 20 years now and I never had any problems with it. Not exclusively though, for desktop applications I still use a mouse. But for couch surfing at home I haven't used a mouse in years.

I'm sure it's very dependent on each person. Some people get tennis elbow, some don't.

The Thinkpad 760 I had only had a Trackpoint, so when I was using it as my main machine, I used it 8-ish hours a day. The last joint in my pointer finger was pretty sore by the time I stopped using it.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#422
post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've also switched from a MacBook to a T14 Gen 1 about a year ago and the TrackPoint is the one problem I struggle with on Linux. On Windows, it's buttery smooth and a joy to use. On Linux, the refresh rate tops out at 80 Hz, and if you so much as lightly touch the touchpad with your palm, it goes further down to ~45 Hz for the next few seconds. All of this makes for a very rough, jerky and imprecise movement. I real…

I don't use the trackpad at all so I don't have that problem. :) You could try playing around with the settings in /sys/devices/platform/i8042/serio1/. The file "sensitivity" or "rate" might be what you're looking for.

Sadly, I've tried it all. It seems that the 80Hz cap is enforced by the kernel PS/2 driver, for whatever reason, and is shared between the touchpad and the TrackPoint since they are on the same bus. I can only imagine drivers under Windows employ some proprietary trickery to get around that limitation.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could do 2x 4K displays with compression over a DisplayLink dock. Probably fine for UI stuff, maybe for video, not great for gaming. The newer 14" and 16" models would drive them natively (or 2x 6K + 1x 4K with the higher end SoC) but then it's not much of a fair comparison by price. The single external display limit is only on the basic "M1" processor and not any of the Pro/Max/Ultra followups. https://danielcom…

The latency on DisplayLink drives me crazy. Completely unusable for me, unfortunately, it's become difficult to find docks which don't use DisplayLink :/

Display link as far as I can tell is a weak video card on a usb connector. Does anyone else make something like that?

I used one with a white plastic MacBook to get 2 displays. I have a new on for my Linux notebook. It works well, but there is a little latency. For writing code/ web browsing it’s fine for me.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#425
post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The focus on node size conveniently elides that this is a comparison between a 14 core CPU and an 8 core CPU.

How is that relevant, though? Even the M1 Max gets smoked by an i5 in single-core performance, and stands neck-and-neck in multicore. In a "fair" fight, Intel still takes the performance crown home. Density is relevant because the only argument I hear from M1 pundits is about performance-per-watt, which is only achieved through monopolizing the 5nm supply chain. When Intel is standing neck-and-neck on power draw with…

No, the M1 Max beats the same processor in the article (i7-1280P) in Cinebench multicore: ~12365 to 11480. That is a 10 core M1 Max vs the 14 core i7. Your "fair fight" is just moving the goal posts to some other random non-specified (probably non-laptop) processor.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bit like asking "who still uses keyboard shortcuts?" After all, there is really no reason that anyone using Paint in Windows would ever type Alt+F and then A when they want to do a Save As... Right? Sure, it worked for the last 30 years. But come on, who ever would type Alt+F and A? It has to be less than 1% of all the Windows users out there. And our telemetry proves it! If you have a billion Windows users…

> This is a bit like asking "who still uses keyboard shortcuts?" No, it was a good-faith question of who finds it useful (for what type of work) these days. I think it's a fair question since every other manufacturer has settled on trackpads. As context, I added that I, personally, find it ruins my screen on an otherwise good laptop. Why the rant about keyboard shortcuts? The only answer you gave to my question was e…

You are right, my rant about keyboard shortcuts was not really related to your question and did not answer it. So with apologies for my rather tangential analogy, let me explain how I got there.

I recently read a ThinkPad review where the author said something like "Why does Lenovo insist in keeping this stupid red nubbin when nobody uses it?" In other words, "I don't use it, so I can't imagine that anyone else would."

I misinterpreted your question as being in that same vein.

Others have given some more direct answers, but let me add mine. As a touch typist, the TrackPoint is the only pointing device that is directly available with my fingers on the home row.

With a touchpad, and especially with a mouse, you have to be in "typing mode" or "pointing and clicking mode". You can't intermix the two modes seamlessly, as you can with the TrackPoint.

Another advantage is the presence of physical mouse buttons. Some other laptops do have these, but they seem to have fallen out of favor to allow a bigger touchpad. The physical buttons let you position the mouse pointer and then click without any chance of the pointer drifting a few pixels while you click.

I also really appreciate your followup question, "What should I have done differently to make it appear as a true effort to understand?"

My suggestion there would perhaps be along these lines: "I don't use the TrackPoint and in fact I removed the cap because it was leaving marks on my screen. But I'm curious to hear from those who use it. What do you like about it?"

In any case, thank you for stimulating an interesting discussion!

p.s. Regarding the screen, I think some of the older ThinkPads may have been more susceptible to this. I also wonder if the screen marking may be due to putting the ThinkPad in a backpack where other objects put pressure in the middle of the lid. I generally carry two ThinkPads in my backpack, my personal and work machines, and I pack them with the tops facing each other and a cotton dishtowel in between. I need a towel anyway to clean the screens and my eyeglasses, and putting the towel between the two tops prevents them from scratching each other. This way the bases of the machines are facing out, and these are much more robust than the lids.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#427

I find it rather peculiar that tech folks think a plastic laptop is good build quality considering what we have from Apple and others. I wish more linux laptops had the build quality and support of macbooks. This isn't a rant from an Apple fan, this is a rant from a laptop fan. ThinkPad's aren't good laptops despite what the guy with the pocket protector says. They are flimsy and feel cheap. They still have 20th cent…

Plastic is often a better material for laptops: - It's light - It's a bit more durable (or perhaps forgiving) when it comes to drops and dents - It's less expensive - If the laptop is built properly (not always a guarantee) it's just a sturdy

I’ve accidentally dropped both my Thinkpad and my MacBook Pro multiple times. Only my MacBook still boots

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#428
I think the summary of this laptop would have been entirely different had the author gotten one with the nvidia gpu. As a user of that machine, the inability to disable the nvidia gpu and drive external monitors is IMHO a deal breaker (the firmware only allows one to disable the iGPU too).

That is because its only recently that nouveau has stabilized sufficiently that it tends to work in the common cases on that platform. If your not running a bleeding edge distro/kernel getting random monitors connected via the onboard HDMI or TB3/TB4 docks are pretty much out of the question. Even then, its hit/miss with the latest 5.17+ kernels. The problem are so numerous that they aren't worth going over, but the end result is that for most people the only way to get it working (say with a couple monitors plugged into the TB4 dock) is to use the proprietary nvidia drivers. Which wouldn't be so bad, but that also means not having secure boot, and hibernate/standby/etc will also have issues.

Bottom line, for linux unless you _REALLY_ need the nvidia get it without.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern carbon frames are designed with structural integrity in mind, the frame-building process allows more fine-tuning than aluminum. Aluminum's best quality is it's value, you can wreck one and buy another and still have spent less than a low-grade CF frame.

Not quite. Carbon fiber is a composite. Structural integrity is not one dimensional, and while carbon fiber frames are great in their intended loads, they are bad in puncture and abrasion, and that is inherent to carbon fiber. It is so much easier to wreck a carbon fiber frame than an alu frame. It just takes one pointy rock or one bad slide. Whereas an alu frame will only receive cosmetic damage

That's a nuanced point to draw, thank you; most of my wrecks have been head-on, or from the side.

I can patch my fiber frame though, it's getting harder to "total" them nowadays imo. I've tried!

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does seem fairly usable already. I'd say it's going to be viable as a primary workstation sooner than later, but things like polished GPU drivers will take more time. There are other ARM machines as well, that run Linux more easily, but those aren't as high-performance yet.

I don't think something is usable without GPU acceleration.

I imagine this is even more true for a device with a "retina" display.
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