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Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

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Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#331

Post by NikolaNovak »

Stratoscope wrote: post #34
tommiegannert wrote: post #4

> Lenovo is famous for their TrackPoint (that little red thing on the keyboard), but I am not sure if I’ll take the time to learn using it. Who's still using this? I removed the red rubber because it was leaving residue on my screen.

This is a bit like asking "who still uses keyboard shortcuts?" After all, there is really no reason that anyone using Paint in Windows would ever type Alt+F and then A when they want to do a Save As... Right? Sure, it worked for the last 30 years. But come on, who ever would type Alt+F and A? It has to be less than 1% of all the Windows users out there. And our telemetry proves it! If you have a billion Windows users…

>>We may as well get a Dell or an HP or a Mac M1 or whatever.

I agree with everything you say; note though that power-user oriented versions of HP & Dell laptops do come with the nub, or at least they did until recently (I've used both a Dell & HP with a nub as recently a ~18 months ago; it's possible in the ever-growing Applefication of the world [shudder], they've been discontinued). I think even some Toshibas have it - generally it'd be in whatever the brands consider their "Road-warrior" models :-> . You see a LOT more of them used on the airplanes of business corridors (e.g. Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal) than anywhere else :).

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#332

Post by sudosysgen »

323 wrote: post #293
faeriechangling wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I make a distinction between "Plastic" and "Carbon Fibre Reinforced Polymer with a magnesium roll cage" that this laptop uses. We don't think an aluminium bike is better than a carbon fibre bike, so why is an aluminium laptop better than a carbon fibre laptop? I mean aluminium has some nice advantages like heat dissipation but CFRP allows for much lighter laptops. If anything I prefer CRFP because of the weight advan…

> We don't think an aluminium bike is better than a carbon fibre bike Depends on how you define better. Carbon bikes are prone to catastrophic failure, and if you fall often are a bad idea. Of course, you might just say "just don't fall".

Yes, honestly, a good aluminium frame is preferable to carbon for 90% of people. The small tradeoff in weight and vibration/stiffness characteristics is really not worth the loss in structural integrity, money, and peace of mind.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#333

Post by avl999 »

l30n4da5 wrote: post #314
avl999 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This mindset is similar to what people with wired headphones think of Airpods et al. It's not an apparent benefit when you're in the bubble of thinking it's normal to have a wire going across your torso all day and hearing the thuds and bumps propagate through the wire to your ears. But when you buy a pair of wireless buds and have them for a week - you don't go back. You've discovered freedom. What is abnormal is…

i mean, as far as wireless headphones/headsets are concerned, my counter-argument is this: I really don't like having a wire constantly tethering me to my desk. With my wireless headset, i can get up, walk around my office, throw something away, or walk out to the other room and grab a coke from the refrigerator; all without pausing my music or taking my headset off. I charge it at night and it is good all day. no wo…

I don't want to have to keep track of charging yet another device, esp one as important and frequently used as headphones. Heck, some days I forget to plug in my phone to charge let alone headphones. Not worth the headache esp when there is another version of the device available with "infinite battery life". If some people prefer wireless and don't mind having to deal the potential inconvenience of always having it charged then more power to them... my problem is when companies try to push wireless headphones on us by taking away the 3.5mm jack.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#334

Post by NikolaNovak »

tommiegannert wrote: post #150
Stratoscope wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bit like asking "who still uses keyboard shortcuts?" After all, there is really no reason that anyone using Paint in Windows would ever type Alt+F and then A when they want to do a Save As... Right? Sure, it worked for the last 30 years. But come on, who ever would type Alt+F and A? It has to be less than 1% of all the Windows users out there. And our telemetry proves it! If you have a billion Windows users…

> This is a bit like asking "who still uses keyboard shortcuts?" No, it was a good-faith question of who finds it useful (for what type of work) these days. I think it's a fair question since every other manufacturer has settled on trackpads. As context, I added that I, personally, find it ruins my screen on an otherwise good laptop. Why the rant about keyboard shortcuts? The only answer you gave to my question was e…

It does not appear to be a good-faith question or at least there does not appear to be a true effort to understand it. FWIW, I use pointing stick and the poster's analogy is the one I wish I could've used for decade - it is friendly and detailed and perfectly represents my use case and feelings (and is much better explanation than my own sibling comment, which was admittedly more of a "over my dead body" :). Like keyboard shortcuts for those who use them, it has more of a learning curve but (we feel) is ultimately a much faster, more efficient and effective method of doing things. You don't have to agree, it may not be for everyone - as I mentioned in sibling response, my wife and I will forever use our laptops differently, and that's OK!

(if we want to start a parallel religious war, let's talk about 3.5mm on phones too! :> )

>> every other manufacturer has settled on trackpads

Note that at various points, until very recently, Dell, HP, Toshiba etc all had power-user oriented models with pointing sticks. If they've gotten rid of them in the last year or two, that is indeed a sad news for many of us - it was never a "either/or" proposition. There's already Apple and many knock-off for those who prefer it; I hope that a laptop for power-users still has a profitable niche :-/

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#335

Post by ReaLNero »

LeonM wrote: post #193

Based on all the comments on HN about how great Thinkpads are supposed to be with Linux, I bought an X1-Extreme some time ago. From my experience, Linux support for Lenovo devices is terrible. ACPI, power management, and UEFI are consistently causing problems. Grub has an issue with the 4K display, causing it to render at about 1 FPS. The dual-GPU (Intel and nVidia) situation is unworkable under Linux. Suspend on lid…

> Grub has an issue with the 4K display, causing it to render at about 1 FPS.

Just lower the resolution in grub's config file.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#336

Post by neither_color »

tim-- wrote: post #49

I recently acquired a ThinkBook 16p Gen 2, and while a different machine entirely to the ThinkPad, I must say that this is an _absolute beast_ of a machine. It's a total joy to use. It's the most fun I have had using a laptop since my first MacBook. Moving from the MBP to the ThinkBook has made me realize how... boring MacBooks are - not saying that's a bad thing. MacBooks do 'just work'. But the ThinkBook? The machi…

>you can use two 4k monitors at the same time -which is impossible with the M1 MacBook Pro

I have two 4K monitors hooked up to a 14" macbook pro currently. I believe it's the air that only connects to one external display.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#337

Post by yencabulator »

boatsie wrote: post #308
lvl102 wrote: post #227

I still wonder what could have been if IBM just kept the Thinkpad lines. Those IBM-designed Thinkpads were built like tanks. Industrial. Legendary keyboards. I really miss those machines. I had some of the best coding sessions on them and can’t help but think Thinkpads played a role in creating that experience.

The skeptic in me thinks that long lived, upgradable, serviceable, resellable laptops would never have survived long anyways. It’s far more profitable to sell new machines to people and businesses after 3 years. Those long lived tank laptops were actually just too good.

I think we're seeing a resurgence of that in https://frame.work/ -- from a startup, not a big name like IBM.

This laptop trend could combine with phones starting to legitimize spare parts, DIY and iFixit style businesses, into something great.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#338

Post by yencabulator »

lloeki wrote: post #166
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

alluminium doesn't grow on trees either. plastic can be (almost) infinitely recycled for industrial use, it's food use that has limited recyclability. also: Macs are very hard to upgrade (sometimes it's impossible to) and become e-trash in a couple of years, while these "plastic" laptops can last a decade before being discarded as junk.

> become e-trash in a couple of years, while these "plastic" laptops can last a decade before being discarded as junk. My experiences different, I'd still be rocking a 2014 MBP had it not suffered massive liquid damage. All Macs and MacBooks I or relatives have crossed or are going to cross the decade threshold with aplomb.

> a 2014 MBP

Great example. macOS Monterey minimum requirements: "MacBook Pro: Early 2015 and newer"

So Apple forces that device to be e-trash, regardless of your desires.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#339

Post by NikolaNovak »

mateuszf wrote: post #38
rxhernandez wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me; it's far superior to anything outside of a mouse. And yes, I have a MacBook M1 (I didn't realize how poor the support was for Linux by the time the return window closed).

I'm curious - do you really consider trackpoint better than apple touchpads?

Yes. With some important asterisks depending on person, usage and preferences :). Let's say it's far better FOR ME :->.

I really like sibling comment's comparison with Keyboard shortcuts. Keyboard shortcuts don't make mouse or touch screen wrong or bad; some of us just prefer them and find them more efficient and effective.

Using trackpad disrupts my flow whereas trackpoint is embedded on the home row. Further, I am much faster and more precise on trackpoint. I have never on any machine achieved easy effortless pixel-perfect precision on a trackpad, and have never found a way to quickly in a single motion repeatedly reach the extreme buttons/locations I want to. Now, I'm a trackpad newbie, but watching other trackpad proponents use their laptop has only confirmed my feeling. It looks easy but slow.

This is not to say there aren't people out there who use trackpad quickly and efficiently; I very much assume there are, plenty! I just have not witnessed them.

My feeling therefore, possibly incorrect, is that trackpad and trackpoint fulfill different purposes: Trackpoint is a high-learning curve, high-skill ceiling option that is ultimately more efficient for some. Trackpad has FAR lower learning curve and is much easier to start using, and is right choice for majority of casual users or those who don't prioritize input efficiency - but it feels like it plateaus earlier, or at least those in my group of family / friends / co-workers plateau with it far sooner.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen3 Review – with Linux

#340

Post by Bud »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #144
avidphantasm wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plastic is made from oil, and has limited recyclability (the polymers degrade so at best you only down cycle). Aluminum is one of the most abundant materials in the earth’s crust, and once refined is basically infinitely recyclable (or so the story goes). Aluminum is also reasonable light and strong, with good thermal properties (if your laptop chassis gets too hot, it has other design issues at this point IMO).

alluminium doesn't grow on trees either. plastic can be (almost) infinitely recycled for industrial use, it's food use that has limited recyclability. also: Macs are very hard to upgrade (sometimes it's impossible to) and become e-trash in a couple of years, while these "plastic" laptops can last a decade before being discarded as junk.

This is not even close to correct. The vast majority of plastics can't even be truly recycled once. Not back into their original form, anyway.

Saying Macs become "e-trash in a couple years" is similarly way way off the mark. Expected life for many Macs is a decade or more. I have one that is from 1984 that still works perfectly. After that, much of the machine is fully recyclable, and the case is 100% recyclable.

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