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The Agony of Eros: Dating

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Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#201

Post by Mezzie »

astrange wrote: post #47
beebeepka wrote: post #21

I cannot relate with the whole "dating" thing one bit. It's not just that I am old now. All I hear is "apps" and silly comments on "how we this and that". I'd go as far as saying avoid people who spew things like "we" on the internet. It's crap. They don't know you, and you don't know them. Go to bars. They're full of young people looking for love. Don't fall into this app dating thing. It's a trap. Why else would th…

> Go to bars. They're full of young people looking for love. Surprisingly this may still be true (I thought people didn't drink as much these days) but it's significantly less common than apps for couples now. https://www.pnas.org/doi/pdf/10.1073/pnas.1908630116 Also not very popular for lesbians. https://www.graphext.com/post/how-couples-meet-and-stay-toge...

I'm a lesbian who despises dating online. I've just accepted I'm going to be single.

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#202

Post by [deleted] »

jdrc wrote: post #82
enw wrote: post #60

Hot take: men don’t want promiscuous women as long-term partners, fundamentally people desire long-term partners, and the commoditization of sex contributes to weak relationships and broken families.

Hotter take: men don't want long-term partners period, monogamy is social conditioning because it leads to stable and more successful settlements.

[deleted]

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#203

Post by solenoidalslide »

ZephyrBlu wrote: post #198
solenoidalslide wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you meant to say that most men are not capable of polygamy? I would very much think that most men are capable of promiscuity.

By capable I mean able to execute. Most men struggle to find a single partner to be monogamous with, let alone multiple partners.

Why would that be the goal? Men who have a partner still have the option to pursue sex outside of a relationship. Many simply pay for that type of sexual relationship with no "struggles" you speak of.

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#204

Post by mejutoco »

nickelcitymario wrote: post #140
jdrc wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eros did not just represent lust but also love. Agape is a context more limited to christianity, which kind of has anti-sexual overtone. But there were many Erotes representing all kinds of desire and attraction > Anteros ("Love Returned"),[1] Hedylogos ("Sweet-talk"), Hermaphroditus ("Hermaphrodite" or "Effeminate"), Himeros ("Impetuous Love" or "Pressing Desire"), Hymenaios ("Bridal-Hymn"), and Pothos ("Desire, Lon…

> [...] christianity, which kind of has anti-sexual overtone. As a Christian, I wouldn't agree with this statement. Most denominations that I've experienced are very pro-sex. We see sex as a gift from God, intended to bond two (or, depending on the denomination, maybe more) people together. God is Love, we're taught, and sex is understood to be an expression of love. Now, you might be right if you said Christianity w…

I realize you didn’t talk explicitely of catholicism but at least in catholicism there is a strong control of sex: priests make vows of celibacy, sex is seen only as a means for reproduction, and there is literature on using exercise (if not worse) to put off sex. Lots of practices of christianity have masoquism undertones (original sin, some rituals). Of course this does not mean everyday christians share this interpretation, but historically I believe it correct to say the Catholic church is not pro-sex.

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#205

Post by bradlys »

solenoidalslide wrote: post #203
ZephyrBlu wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By capable I mean able to execute. Most men struggle to find a single partner to be monogamous with, let alone multiple partners.

Why would that be the goal? Men who have a partner still have the option to pursue sex outside of a relationship. Many simply pay for that type of sexual relationship with no "struggles" you speak of.

This is really not polyamory or non-monogamy in the way you’re framing it. Paying for sex outside of your marriage isn’t really non-monogamy in my book - it’s just sad.

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#206

Post by fellowniusmonk »

xupybd wrote: post #64

I skipped all this being religious. I knew my wife for years. Over a year we started to hit it off and got to know each other as good friends. I asked her out and proposed one week later. Four months later we were married. It's old fashioned but our emotional and physical involvement was proportional to our level of commitment at every stage. It won't be the way most people want to go but it seems to have saved much…

Similar experience, opposite conclusions. There is a reason religious areas (in the U.S.) have higher divorce rates.

Turned out my first wife didn't want intimacy of any sort. She wanted marriage but not a relationship beyond the superficial.

10 years later and about >40k in therapy and I divorced her after she admitted she just was never that "attached" to me.

I would never advocate a person getting married before sex. Sex is only some life altering emotional thing because of it's scarcity and how people have been inculcated to believe a common animalistic imperative has cosmic spiritual significance.

Happily married now to someone with a similar story, they did everything right and their partner just didn't want to be with someone of the opposite sex any longer.

It takes two to tango but it only takes one person to pick up their ball and go home.

Advice to any kids I ever had would be, have casual sex and relationships until you've developed a better understanding of other people (and also yourself), no marriage until after proof your potential partner is capable of holistic intimacy.

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#207

Post by mensetmanusman »

mejutoco wrote: post #204
nickelcitymario wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [...] christianity, which kind of has anti-sexual overtone. As a Christian, I wouldn't agree with this statement. Most denominations that I've experienced are very pro-sex. We see sex as a gift from God, intended to bond two (or, depending on the denomination, maybe more) people together. God is Love, we're taught, and sex is understood to be an expression of love. Now, you might be right if you said Christianity w…

I realize you didn’t talk explicitely of catholicism but at least in catholicism there is a strong control of sex: priests make vows of celibacy, sex is seen only as a means for reproduction, and there is literature on using exercise (if not worse) to put off sex. Lots of practices of christianity have masoquism undertones (original sin, some rituals). Of course this does not mean everyday christians share this inter…

It’s important to realize that Catholicism as practiced by a given culture is influenced by prevailing beliefs.

The puritan(ical) genesis of the United States has resulted in a mostly Protestant practice of Catholicism in the U.S. (polls of US Catholics show that over half diverge with Catholic teachings).

Catholicism in my experience is very pro-sex, and many teachings are dedicated to it: https://www.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/en/encyclicals/docume...

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#208

Post by bradlys »

This article speaks a lot from a position of privilege and mostly from a straight woman’s view. The aspect of dating a lot in their 20’s is something most relegated to the most attractive men and most women these days.

If you want to have stable relationships - you need to commit to people who are actually interested in you. The reason many women have these bad experiences with men is because they’re all dating the same guy. Literally. In many instances, women are all dating the same man. They’re all optimizing for the superficial and hoping the deeper and lasting parts appear later. (But they never do - because they optimized for the superficial) So while many women disparage all men because they keep dating the same guy who has way too many options and no interest in committing (and essentially has a harem on tap) but it’s really on them for that scenario they’re in. If you keep going for something that doesn’t want you then it’s on you.

I find it weird we are blaming men for these things when it’s clear that most men are just not having sex in their 20s anymore and clearly not even getting dates. Men are very lonely these days. The 4x self-inflicted death rate compared to women should be evidence enough. If we want to fix this and have a more meaningful relationship then women need to stop chasing the one guy who will never settle down with them.

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#209

Post by Der_Einzige »

chrisseaton wrote: post #118
blfr wrote: post #112

> You learn about shared interests, job, which college they went to, their friend group. This is the prime mistake I see my friends make. As a guy, there are pretty much only two things that will seriously and negatively affect your dating life: being short or boring. Talking about your college, job, and friends is usually boring. In fact, even funny stories from these contexts are often boring for your dates to hear…

> come in with enough material to carry a conversation for these 1-4 hours Wow you need a whole multi-part Netflix special just to go on a first date.

This is called "jester-maxxing" or "goof-maxxing" for a reason. The negative connotations are more than warranted...

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#210

Post by Der_Einzige »

beebeepka wrote: post #21

I cannot relate with the whole "dating" thing one bit. It's not just that I am old now. All I hear is "apps" and silly comments on "how we this and that". I'd go as far as saying avoid people who spew things like "we" on the internet. It's crap. They don't know you, and you don't know them. Go to bars. They're full of young people looking for love. Don't fall into this app dating thing. It's a trap. Why else would th…

Outside of swinger bars, the culture of hitting on people at bars is dead, at least in the PNW.

Swinger bars it's still around, but partly because they're less of a sausage fest due to the crazy door fees for men...

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