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Ask HN: Companies hiring for a 4-day workweek?

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Re: Ask HN: Companies hiring for a 4-day workweek?

#71

Post by microtonal »

bartvk wrote: post #32
microtonal wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bit disingenuous. A 4-day work week usually means that a work week is reduced from 40 to 32 hours without a loss of compensation. Like previous reductions in work time, the theory is that while someone puts in fewer hours, it’s worth it because people can’t be fully productive for 40 hours. Your linked offer is a part-time position. It even states that you only get a cut of FTE and that there is the possibi…

To me as a Dutch person, that's not disingenious at all, that is exactly what you want. You go from a 5 day workweek to 4 days, and take a 20% paycut. Sometimes it's possible to work 4 days of 9 hours, but it always comes with a paycut.

I am Dutch too and it is common to work part-time for four days at a 20% cut [1]. However the four-day work week movement/experiments usually mean that people would work four days without a pay cut. The idea is (like going from the 6 day to 5 day work week at the beginning of the 20th century) that the extra leisure makes people more productive during work time. So, the same amount of work is done in less time, hence no pay cuts.

See e.g.:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-day_workweek#Active_trial...

https://www.4dayweek.com

[1] In fact, if you work >= 6 months for a Dutch employer, you can request moving to a part-time schedule and they can only reject this request unless they have very good reasons:

https://www.intermediair.nl/werk-privebalans/rolverdeling/we...

Re: Ask HN: Companies hiring for a 4-day workweek?

#72

Post by jamesrr39 »

matthews2 wrote: post #68
throw1230 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Important to know Europe doesn't calculate time offs like the US does. In the US, if you take 4 weeks off, it's 20 days PTO. In Europe it's 28-30.

Which countries do it like this? At least at where I've worked in the UK, only the days where you would've normally been at work are counted.

In Sweden and Denmark as well, it would be calculated as 20 days assuming a standard Monday to Friday office hours job. I'm also curious to know where the parent poster got the 28-30 days calculation from.

Re: Ask HN: Companies hiring for a 4-day workweek?

#74

Post by microtonal »

louwrentius wrote: post #65
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>- Unlimited sick days I very much doubt that. In most EU countries sick days are limited to 90 days, after that a panel of doctors will examine your case and move you to disability pay for example, as you can't just be on sick leave "unlimited".

In NL the concept of ‘sick days’ doesn’t exist. If you are ill, you are ill. You can get the flu and be out for a week or so and nobody bats an eye. Some use more than others and some may game the system. But overall we in NL are not familiar with the stress of losing our days off because of illness. This should be the norm for every decent country that cares about human well-being.

Yeah, not having unlimited sick days also had the bad outcome that people go to work sick (to avoid using sick days) and infect other people.

Re: Ask HN: Companies hiring for a 4-day workweek?

#75

Post by timthorn »

_puk wrote: post #43
dx034 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't really cover the UK, only offering 20 days PTO without explanation is illegal in the UK, the minimum is 28 days (not including bank holidays). And it's very restrictive compared to most European countries anyway. Seems crazy that this is competitive in the US. Then again, salaries are much higher in the US.

"in the UK, the minimum is 28 days (not including bank holidays)". I had to double check this as it doesn't match my experience. Yes, it is a minimum of 28 days, but that can include Bank Holidays (normally 6 days, though we have extra "Jubilee" Bank Holidays this year), so in practice it's 20 days plus Bank Holidays minimum. 0: https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights

It's normally 8 days of Bank Holiday in England - New Year's Day, Good Friday and Easter Monday, the two May holidays, the August one, then Christmas and Boxing days.

Re: Ask HN: Companies hiring for a 4-day workweek?

#76

Post by keraf »

petesergeant wrote: post #24

I got my current 4 day gig just by being upfront with everyone I interviewed with that that's what I was looking for, and waiting until someone said yes.

Same here. I just laid my 3 conditions (4 days week, 100% remote, X€ per month) right away in the introduction interview and made it clear that I wouldn't be interested to move forward if these were not met. Most companies I interviewed with were OK with this. The job market for SE (depending on experience) nowadays allows these types of requests with good compensation.

Re: Ask HN: Companies hiring for a 4-day workweek?

#77

Post by Cthulhu_ »

nkmnz wrote: post #27

In Germany, employers with more than 15 employees cannot deny the request of an employee to work only part-time without a strong reason (e.g. the company cannot operate without you because you are the only employee with a specific license). That said, it’s difficult to be a remote employee vs. a remote freelancer because of taxes and insurance law.

This is also true in NL, the right to work less than full time is enshrined in law, and most software / IT companies I know of have no problem with working 32 or 36 hours a week instead of 40. Consultancy will probably push for working full time, because that's where their profit margins are.

Re: Ask HN: Companies hiring for a 4-day workweek?

#78

Post by ivanhoe »

I stroke such a deal by accident, clients informed me that due to budget cuts they can't afford my full-time services anymore, so rather than lowering my fees (never do that) or loosing the client, I offered them to hire me for 32h a week instead. My initial plan was to take another part-time project to fill the gap, and I did that for a while, but in the end now I really enjoy having 3-days weekends. You come on Monday to work with so much more energy.

Re: Ask HN: Companies hiring for a 4-day workweek?

#79

Post by jen20 »

janosdebugs wrote: post #13

This may not exactly be the answer you are looking for, but Red Hat (my employer) has 4wd employees, even in my current team. Depending on the team, you may be able to negotiate a 4 day workweek without problems. However, you'd have to reside in a country where RH has an office. I have been at previous companies too where negotiating a shorter workweek was not a problem.

Does Red Hat require office presence or just hire in countries where they have HR set up etc?

Re: Ask HN: Companies hiring for a 4-day workweek?

#80

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

louwrentius wrote: post #65
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>- Unlimited sick days I very much doubt that. In most EU countries sick days are limited to 90 days, after that a panel of doctors will examine your case and move you to disability pay for example, as you can't just be on sick leave "unlimited".

In NL the concept of ‘sick days’ doesn’t exist. If you are ill, you are ill. You can get the flu and be out for a week or so and nobody bats an eye. Some use more than others and some may game the system. But overall we in NL are not familiar with the stress of losing our days off because of illness. This should be the norm for every decent country that cares about human well-being.

>In NL the concept of ‘sick days’ doesn’t exist. If you are ill, you are ill

Isn't that illness called a sick day? Like I said, everyone calls it unlimited sick days, but in Austria, and I think in Poland, Germany too it's limited to 90 days per year. Sick longer than 90 days gets your cased evaluated by a doctor's committee and probably moved to disability pay. But I doubt there is such a thing as unlimited sick day. Sure, you can be sick for an unlimited time, but your employee and insurance status will change after a certain number of days.

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