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Ask HN: Beyond AWS/Azure/GCP, what cloud providers should I know more about?

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Re: Ask HN: Beyond AWS/Azure/GCP, what cloud providers should I know more about?

#71

Post by philliphaydon »

eigenvalue wrote: post #56
PaywallBuster wrote: post #15

Oracle Cloud - good alternative for bandwidth heavy products (used by Zoom) Heroku - For a more "abstracted" cloud that just works Vultr/DigitalOcean - Cheap VMs, additionaly some services like managed DB and K8s Hetzner/OVH - Cheap dedicated hosts Netlify/Cloudflare Pages/etc - for static websites + functions/3rd party services for dynamic stuff

Hetzner is shockingly cheaper than vultr now. Also Contabo is very cheap.

I was trying to price up something between hetzner and AWS and as a starting place AWS ends up cheaper until you get to a certain point then hetzner ends up cheaper. Basically wanted 3 servers. One for load balancer and then 2 web servers so I can pop them in and out. But with hetzner it’s minimum like $30/m per server when I only need 2c/2g I get 3 servers at AWS for $32.

Re: Ask HN: Beyond AWS/Azure/GCP, what cloud providers should I know more about?

#72

Post by throwaway787544 »

Genesis Hosting. An OpenStack provider in Chicago with really decent prices and full control over your own OpenStack cluster.

OpenStack is the open source democratization of the cloud. In Europe there are a dozen such providers, in the US there's only one it seems. Hoping they continue to grow and other hosters break away from basic VPS hosting and also provide OpenStack clusters.

Re: Ask HN: Beyond AWS/Azure/GCP, what cloud providers should I know more about?

#73

Post by ksec »

May be more of a market analysis in terms of size than anything.

HyperScaler are the three you mentioned.

Then you have Alibaba, Tencent and Baidu. ( All Chinese )

Oracle and IBM Cloud

OVH, Hetzner,

Linode, Digital Ocean, UpCloud, Vultr, Scaleway. Possibly Fly.io ( not sure )

They all own their at least part of the Datacenter, Network and their own hardware. You have other services like Render and Heroku.

I am not aware of any potential upcoming players in this space ( Tell me about it ). But I think Cloudflare will likely be the big disruption in the next 5 years. They will own most of what we call "Cloud" services and Network and leave only the capital intensive compute to others.

Then you have many players that are the size of Linode or DO but dont operate as "Cloud".

I am still sad that Heroku didn't improve or move up / down the ladder. They seems to have happy at where they are.

Re: Ask HN: Beyond AWS/Azure/GCP, what cloud providers should I know more about?

#74

Post by usr1106 »

mgbmtl wrote: post #65
jhugo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had a lot of noisy neighbour issues on Hetzner's VPSes, to the point that we stopped using them entirely. Their bare metal is a great offer though. And fully agreed about lock-in. If you can, design cloud-agnostic from the start. You get a lot more flexibility and you're in a much better negotiating position as you grow. Not realistic or necessarily sensible for every company/team though.

I'm a happy Hetzner baremetal (and OVH) user, just don't use Hetzner's Finland DC, the network is very unpredictable (a lot of random packet loss).

You don't say where you notice that packet loss from, so I guess you are talking about the US?

The by far biggest cable goes from Finland to Germany. No idea what happens after that. I believe Hetzner uses it and I have never heard that they wouldn't have enough bandwidth. But I have neither inside knowledge nor do I use them.

Being in Finland myself I have better latencies from real cheap Scaleway in Paris than from far more expensive AWS in Frankfurt. So it's not always you get what you pay for. Still no drops from either.

Maybe Hetzner has more noisy neighbor issues because they are cheaper? The same could hold for Scaleway, but I have never noticed anything.

Re: Ask HN: Beyond AWS/Azure/GCP, what cloud providers should I know more about?

#75

Post by jen20 »

deepspace wrote: post #55
dijit wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Oracle Cloud - good alternative for bandwidth heavy products (used by Zoom) please don't. I have nothing but the worst experiences with Oracle Cloud. Granted, I was always a little biased against Oracle as a company; but I have a friend working on OCI and assumed that since what I needed was really basic it would be fine. It really wasn't, it was awful, confusing and opaquely and egregiously expensive.

> It really wasn't, it was awful, confusing and opaquely and egregiously expensive. That is true, but it is also very much an understatement of just how miserable every step of the OC experience is. I was once forced by a customer to endure the torture that is OC, and the only thing that saved me was when Oracle's terrible management software just deleted our entire account and deployment one weekend. Gone without a…

> Luckily, that was enough to persuade the client to move to Azure.

Out of the frying pan into the fire, eh?

Re: Ask HN: Beyond AWS/Azure/GCP, what cloud providers should I know more about?

#76

Post by usr1106 »

eigenvalue wrote: post #56
PaywallBuster wrote: post #15

Oracle Cloud - good alternative for bandwidth heavy products (used by Zoom) Heroku - For a more "abstracted" cloud that just works Vultr/DigitalOcean - Cheap VMs, additionaly some services like managed DB and K8s Hetzner/OVH - Cheap dedicated hosts Netlify/Cloudflare Pages/etc - for static websites + functions/3rd party services for dynamic stuff

Hetzner is shockingly cheaper than vultr now. Also Contabo is very cheap.

At least some Hetzner offers used to be used servers and they can suddenly fail. I haven't followed them.

But I guess you need to think about your backup plans anyway (depending on what service you run). So using a less reliable provider might just mean that you practice your backup plan slightly more frequently. Some OVH customers can tell you the story when one of their data centers burned down.

Re: Ask HN: Beyond AWS/Azure/GCP, what cloud providers should I know more about?

#77

Post by highclass »

Spunkie wrote: post #68
slackfan wrote: post #63

I realize some folks have a fairly negative view, hell I still have it, but Oracle OCI has been surprisingly sane. When you break out of the mindset that "this should work this way because that's how AWS does it", it's actually quite refreshing. Their serverless support story (Oracle Functions) is pretty clunky, but for standing up instances, and the terraform provider is quite verbose, but when it works, it works in…

OCI support is actively the most unhelpful and useless waste of time I've had the displeasure of spending this year. As an added bonus they will randomly nuke accounts and production servers without even a curtsey email. I won't even take on clients if they are using OCI.

Would you know if this occurred to a free or paid account?

To be fair, I have been testing Oracle Cloud Infrastructure(OCI) on a paid account for about 2 years now and actively monitor server hosting forums.

During that time I have had no "abnormal" problems with paid production account.

However, it is well known that Oracle accidentally nuked free/trial accounts early on, and again recently accidental nuked free/trial accounts reserved public IPs. However, I know of no such events for paid accounts, and paid accounts on OCI should be production ready quality in my experience.

On the other hand support really is somewhat bad, but support is free and the cloud costs are much less than AWS, while having better products than similar priced cloud products such as Lnode, Vultr, Digital ocean.

Re: Ask HN: Beyond AWS/Azure/GCP, what cloud providers should I know more about?

#78

Post by highclass »

Spunkie wrote: post #69
deepspace wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It really wasn't, it was awful, confusing and opaquely and egregiously expensive. That is true, but it is also very much an understatement of just how miserable every step of the OC experience is. I was once forced by a customer to endure the torture that is OC, and the only thing that saved me was when Oracle's terrible management software just deleted our entire account and deployment one weekend. Gone without a…

I won't even take on clients if they are using OCI now. I've had previous clients whos entire account with production servers just get nuked without even so much as a curtsey email and OCI support WILL NOT HELP.

Do you know if this occurred to a free or paid account?

To be fair, I have been testing Oracle Cloud Infrastructure(OCI) on a paid account for about 2 years now and actively monitor server hosting forums.

During that time I have had no "abnormal" problems with paid production account.

However, it is well known that Oracle accidentally nuked free/trial accounts early on, and again recently accidental nuked free/trial accounts reserved public IPs. However, I know of no such events for paid accounts, and paid accounts on OCI should be production ready quality in my experience.

On the other hand support really is somewhat bad, but support is free and the cloud costs are much less than AWS, while having better products than similar priced cloud products such as Lnode, Vultr, Digital ocean.

Re: Ask HN: Beyond AWS/Azure/GCP, what cloud providers should I know more about?

#79

Post by kqr »

moondev wrote: post #20

Kubernetes + Cluster API. This unlocks the ability to use one or multiple providers: https://cluster-api.sigs.k8s.io/reference/providers.html * Alibaba Cloud * AWS * Azure * Azure Stack HCI * Baidu Cloud * BYOH * Metal3 * DigitalOcean * Exoscale * GCP * Hetzner * IBM Cloud * KubeVirt * MAAS * Nested * Nutanix * OpenStack * Equinix Metal (formerly Packet) * Sidero * Tencent Cloud * vSphere

This sounds like a nifty solution for compute, but I suppose for data storage and such you would want a separate managed service? Or does this hook into that for various providers too?

Re: Ask HN: Beyond AWS/Azure/GCP, what cloud providers should I know more about?

#80

Post by moondev »

kqr wrote: post #79
moondev wrote: post #20

Kubernetes + Cluster API. This unlocks the ability to use one or multiple providers: https://cluster-api.sigs.k8s.io/reference/providers.html * Alibaba Cloud * AWS * Azure * Azure Stack HCI * Baidu Cloud * BYOH * Metal3 * DigitalOcean * Exoscale * GCP * Hetzner * IBM Cloud * KubeVirt * MAAS * Nested * Nutanix * OpenStack * Equinix Metal (formerly Packet) * Sidero * Tencent Cloud * vSphere

This sounds like a nifty solution for compute, but I suppose for data storage and such you would want a separate managed service? Or does this hook into that for various providers too?

Storage is already abstracted via Kubernetes with persistent volume claims and CSI (container storage interface)

You can specify the default storage class to use the provider's CSI driver. The PVC is then specified and consumed the same way in a portable manner across providers.

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