Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

emerald.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

271–279 of 279 posts

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#271

Post by maxk42 »

tubalcain wrote: post #128
maxk42 wrote: post #34

I'm going to buck the trend and say that candidates with attractive photos are quite possibly actually more competent. When hiring, I consider the content of a resume and not its aesthetics. But the people who go the extra mile to add polish: An attractive, well-formatted resume; being well-dressed for an interview; and even adding polish to a photo - are likely candidates who express the added attention to detail I'…

The polish you speak of is not the relevant factor in determining attractiveness. Height, facial features and non-obesity are the characteristics described, and with the exception of obesity, are largely immutable. In other words, a professionally done photo of a goblin-like human will be viewed more negatively than a selfie of an attractive person.

And yet the study only considered the application of filters, which are pure "polish".

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#272

Post by sundvor »

ehnto wrote: post #207
sundvor wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I'd recommend keeping fitness a top priority especially as one gets older. Not only does everything get easier when not overweight, but the energy boost and appearance improvements certainly helps your confidence and presentation in every possible way. I'm not someone you'd consider a "pretty" man even by a long shot, but being fit with a healthy BMI makes a world of difference nonetheless. (I took serious st…

I don't believe attractiveness defines a persons value, I just know it changes how people behave around you, so you will probably see results if you can put some effort into being fit and put together. As you said, not everyone gets to be 'handsome' or 'pretty', but you can get a head way above the pack with fitness alone. I've always had a hard time articulating my advice on this matter, because it's easy to be shal…

Absolutely. You can work with what you got, and stop blaming the world for what you weren't given (e.g. a face with no deformities, for me; I'm happy the picture with resume is not a done thing in Australia). Telling people to HTFU has never been popular, but that doesn't mean it can't apply to most anyone.

It might be small things like quitting alcohol, not using smart phones until the early hours every single night - so getting enough, better quality sleep. And getting a water carbonator with the money saved from the drink, thus improving your skin through better hydration. And squeezing some walks in here and there eg by parking further away, or taking the stairs, when before you wouldn't.

Taking hard personal responsibility for your own health, I'm sure most everyone could find something to improve on.

I have a long list still to go through for myself - but I've accepted that minor transgressions one day can be balanced out by being better the next few days. Thus one can achieve balance without going crazy.

For me Intermittent Fasting has been an incredible eye opener, and weight shredder. This included learning about nutrition. On this, DIY food box deliveries (eg Everyplate, the simpler/cheaper version of Hello Fresh) are extremely high value compared to eg Uber Eats deliveries - both nutritionally, and financially. It takes effort, of course - but that's part of HTFU.

Finally, going through a process of decluttering and cleaning my home after my separation - changing these habits have been very healthy for my mental state. Perhaps this goes twice for someone with ADHD, like myself. When I'm home now, I truly feel at peace; it's changed my attitude into a more positive one, which has improved my energy and clarity of thinking.

It's all about habits, and mental and physical health interconnect; maintaining both certainly takes discipline and effort. The effects are observable, though, and everyone judges everything all the time on an unconscious level. Fair or not - as biological beings that's just how it is.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#273

Post by qayxc »

WalterBright wrote: post #270
qayxc wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good example, now imagine the same Edison (w.r.t. potential) at the same time with the same hearing loss born to a black family. Imagine the great things a genius like Srinivasa Ramanujan could have achieved if he had the privilege of a proper formal education and wouldn't have lived at the poverty line for most his life, which ultimately caused him to die young. For every Edison there's literally millions of (mostly…

I don't buy the defeatism in your theory. Too many counterexamples. I recommend you read a biography on Edison's early life. Or just look at America itself. It was not settled by rich people, or even middle class people. It was settled by destitute people, criminals running from the law, indentured servants, and slaves. It became the richest country in the world, with the largest and wealthiest middle class. Why do y…

> I don't buy the defeatism in your theory.

There's no defeatism, just a healthy dose of reality. It's not a theory either, it's a fact that can be demonstrated by statistics and even put in numbers (though I'm not a fan of GINI and the like).

> Too many counterexamples.

I recommend you look at the dire state of many people around the globe and throughout history. History only tells the story of those who made it - nobody writes about the millions who failed and why. It's an inherent bias that distorts our perception.

> Or just look at America itself.

I explicitly mentioned countries that provide opportunities, of which the US is one. Though it wasn't everyone who immediately benefitted; the slaves and the indigenous people weren't so lucky in their time, for example. The gain for some was a loss for the others.

> Why do you think millions of people desperately try to get into the US every year?

For the exact reason I mentioned: because they grew up in places that simply don't allow them to achieve their goals, no matter how hard they try. How many fail to cross the border or get rejected and how many are deported later?

Thousands of refugees die every year while trying to cross the Mediterranean Sea to reach Europe. Were the survivors truly masters of their own destiny or did they just get lucky? Is it talent, determination and the right attitude that gets them out of the refugee camp on Lampedusa; or are they at the mercy of a cold and uncaring bureaucracy that just wants to get rid of them?

I'm not saying only certain people can achieve their life goals. What I'm saying is that determination and talent alone are not always sufficient. Circumstances play a major role in life.

Call me cynical, but for every success story there's a hundred young people who didn't live to their 21st birthday in the favelas of Rio or in the slums of Lagos.

Your perception might be different and I'm not trying to convince you, I like your optimism, even though I don't share it.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#274

Post by ajwfew »

cassepipe wrote: post #190
nostromo wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of data out there showing that attractiveness, fitness (as in, not obese), and tallness are all massive biases in the workplace -- much bigger in many studies than biases around gender and ethnicity even. I don't know why these forms of identity are almost entirely ignored, while we obsess over others. Imagine if tech companies published the height, weight, and facial symmetry of their workforces, like…

The reason they are "obsessed over", or taken into account as someone else may put it, although I'll give you that any kind of social/cultural identity tends to lead to some form of obsession in some people's minds, is because they are deemed significant for locally dependent social/historical/political reasons which I am sure I don't need to give you examples of but will anyway : colonialism, slavery, genocides... Y…

Attractiveness is not at all evenly distributed among races. Neither is height or weight. And "attractiveness" is still massively influenced by cultural perceptions.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#275

Post by cassepipe »

ajwfew wrote: post #274
cassepipe wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason they are "obsessed over", or taken into account as someone else may put it, although I'll give you that any kind of social/cultural identity tends to lead to some form of obsession in some people's minds, is because they are deemed significant for locally dependent social/historical/political reasons which I am sure I don't need to give you examples of but will anyway : colonialism, slavery, genocides... Y…

Attractiveness is not at all evenly distributed among races. Neither is height or weight. And "attractiveness" is still massively influenced by cultural perceptions.

1. My point was inside any group, there is a certain distribution of attractiveness relative to the attractiveness "standard" of that group. And that somehow, a certain level of (culturally defined) attractiveness is somehow not enough to constitute a group (or used to be not enough at least) Or maybe is that because attractiveness is relative enough at the individual level so that it is hard for an individual to be systematically identified by others ? Or is it because to self-identify as unattractive/attractive tends to have a negative social costs in social relationships ? I must admit I don't know. I am just throwing hypotheses now.

Of course, now there is a form of more or less globalized standard of attractiveness that is more influenced by group that have the more power but that also has to open itself, the more globalized it becomes. But that globalized standard also challenges locally defined attractiveness. I take this is what you mean when you say that "attractiveness is not evenly distributes among races".

(Instagram seems to be the symbol of that struggle for cultural dominance in the realm of attractiveness standards as it is massively used as a tool to capitalize on one's own attractiveness.)

2.Which is why I wrote "a little less" because I did not want to digress too much.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#276

Post by Broken_Hippo »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #260
Brusco_RF wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always been quite skeptical of the fast-food for the simple reason that when I am strapped for cash I buy rice and beans. No processed or fast foods even come close to rice and beans on a dollar-per-calorie basis. So called "food deserts" are a bit of a chicken and egg problem. Are the restaurants in your area a reflection of the eating habits of the people in that area, or a grand conspiracy to keep us unhealth…

For people struggling to pay rent, sometimes working multiple jobs and or with kids, there isn't a lot of energy or executive function left. And even rice and beans aren't terribly nutritious. If that's a staple for decades it can also cause obesity, especially for certain genetic demographics.

Not to mention that when you are struggling to pay rent, you are often struggling to pay utilities too. Time without water, electricity, or gas to wash, cook, and keep things cold seriously impact your ability to cook, even if you do have the time.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#277

Post by ajwfew »

cassepipe wrote: post #275
ajwfew wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Attractiveness is not at all evenly distributed among races. Neither is height or weight. And "attractiveness" is still massively influenced by cultural perceptions.

1. My point was inside any group, there is a certain distribution of attractiveness relative to the attractiveness "standard" of that group. And that somehow, a certain level of (culturally defined) attractiveness is somehow not enough to constitute a group (or used to be not enough at least) Or maybe is that because attractiveness is relative enough at the individual level so that it is hard for an individual to be…

No post body was provided.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#278

Post by ajwfew »

cassepipe wrote: post #190
nostromo wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of data out there showing that attractiveness, fitness (as in, not obese), and tallness are all massive biases in the workplace -- much bigger in many studies than biases around gender and ethnicity even. I don't know why these forms of identity are almost entirely ignored, while we obsess over others. Imagine if tech companies published the height, weight, and facial symmetry of their workforces, like…

The reason they are "obsessed over", or taken into account as someone else may put it, although I'll give you that any kind of social/cultural identity tends to lead to some form of obsession in some people's minds, is because they are deemed significant for locally dependent social/historical/political reasons which I am sure I don't need to give you examples of but will anyway : colonialism, slavery, genocides... Y…

No post body was provided.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#279

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

version_five wrote: post #269
symlinkk wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> seeing what a person looks like is an important part of working with them Why?

Because we're social animals that have evolved to weight appearance very highly in decision we make. I'm not trying to justify it, but it's a fact. We're not vulcans, and even if we we're we'd recognize that what we find attractive has evolutionary significance and weigh that signal accordingly.

Unsurprisingly, there are no unattractive Vulcans, at least none I've met.
Post reply on HN