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Limb lengthening surgery is becoming more popular

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Re: Limb lengthening surgery is becoming more popular

#131
post #99

> “Don’t be so sure of yourself, short man!” The problem is that it's still socially acceptable to see short stature as some objective faux-pas. There's really no difference between a person proudly declaring they only like "white" people and a person declaring they only like "tall" people. If the guy said "Don't be so sure of yourself, black man" maybe it would have been acceptable in the 1920s, but it surely isn't…

>there aren't really downsides to short stature in modern life It even have several health benefits. Except that in dating, women overwhelmingly prefer men over 6', and very small differences like 5'7 vs 5'9 double or triple the matches in online dating sites. If we are talking about 5'6 vs 6'0 the difference is ridiculous, like over 200X more matches. Women even divorce short men at double the rate of tall men. Thos…

> Except that in dating, women overwhelmingly prefer men over 6’

Is this actually true?

> if you are short, you are very likely to die alone

This also seems like nonsense.

Re: Limb lengthening surgery is becoming more popular

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Being tall had several competitive advantages in the past. Basically before guns were invented the bigger guy usually could kill smaller guys, and get more food for the family. Quite obvious that women would prefer the big guy, and instincts don't change that quickly.

I perfectly agree it make sense evolutionarily speaking, I just wonder how that subjectively manifest in a woman mind. I don't think it's the same perceived stimulus vs the consensual sexy perception of a hypertrophied 6 pack.

Re: Limb lengthening surgery is becoming more popular

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are overestimating and being too kind on “modernity”. Even if today short stature is not a disadvantage (and that’s a big if), it can perfectly well be in one month, after a war or pandemic breaks out, or in a generation when your children will be shorter because of current preferences.

I can think of another genetic factor that has a much, much greater impact on survival. And it is absolutely taboo to mention the heritability or genetic basis of this trait. Take solace in the fact that if you find yourself on HN, you're likely at least a few SD above the mean in this trait, so you don't have much to worry about. Furthermore, you can use this trait to understand the fickle nature of sexual attractio…

oof, we don't discuss intelligence == genetics == success here, too bad those three are hardly correlated without addressing other factors, edit too bad as in too good, because without the other factors they aren't related. No straight line for you here

Re: Limb lengthening surgery is becoming more popular

#134
"a 2006 study on online dating found that a man who is 5'6'' needs an additional $175,000 to be as desirable as a man who is approximately 6' tall and only makes $62,500 a year."

I guess I appreciate the brutal honesty. Wealth and height. And not to forget social status, as one woman in the linked article explained how she broke up with a short guy because of what others (might) think of it.

Not a word is wasted on actual love. The stereotype that women barely ever date "below" them, in wealth, height, status, remains true. Your character still matters, but only after checking the above boxes. Men are selected by utility, with disastrous consequences for those that get left behind, as there's no mercy for them.

You can't explain the harsh "be 6' or keep moving" requirement or the open ridiculing of short men on evolutionary selection alone. It's a US-dominant cultural trend. In many other countries no woman would have such exact and absolute demands. It might be a soft unspoken preference at best. Making it a "do or die" requirement is cultural.

Similarly, wealth is not an evolutionary selector for the simple reason that wealth didn't exist until 10K years ago. You could make the point though that wealth is a representation of security, in an indirect way.

In any case, I just find it disturbing how superficial the matchmaking is. When you use a criteria, it's supposed to increase your chance of success, meaning a "happily ever after" story. None of these criteria do that. Beauty fades and none of us are beautiful in the morning. Wealth doesn't buy love. Height does absolutely nothing for a relationship. And yet women insist on it.

The female version is equally disturbing but different. I've never met or talked to a man that finds fake boobs, duck lips, botox, fake bums, fake tans, an inch of makeup in any remote way attractive, or a "selector". So the depressing reality is that women largely do this in a competition towards other women, and this perverted rat race knows many victims.

For the cynics that may think that I'm coping, I'm not. I'm 6"4 and in a loving long term relationship. That doesn't stop me from caring about the perverted mate selection dynamics of today that are downright cruel and throws good people aside as if trash.

Re: Limb lengthening surgery is becoming more popular

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lucky for short people, height is a lot less of a factor in modern society. Wealth is a much bigger factor. And what's the best path to wealth? Software . Even more lucky for them, software and internet doesn't care about height.

Quoted post unavailable.

Is that really why humans are getting taller? Most increase in height has happened in the last 70 years and linked to increases in nutrition. Selective pressure seems implausible as an explanation for any measurable increases in height in historical time.

Re: Limb lengthening surgery is becoming more popular

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being tall had several competitive advantages in the past. Basically before guns were invented the bigger guy usually could kill smaller guys, and get more food for the family. Quite obvious that women would prefer the big guy, and instincts don't change that quickly.

I think they actually change faster than most would think. While that specific reason for preferring big guys is out-dated, more recently malnutrition and destitution have been a black mark on short people. The reason I think societal trends move faster than we think is that I think it was only in the middle of the last century that we still preferred fatter bodies.

> we still preferred fatter bodies how widepsread? And how much of it was physical attraction vs social reasons attraction?

Re: Limb lengthening surgery is becoming more popular

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lucky for short people, height is a lot less of a factor in modern society. Wealth is a much bigger factor. And what's the best path to wealth? Software . Even more lucky for them, software and internet doesn't care about height.

Quoted post unavailable.

I think the stats you are referencing about humans getting taller are from improvements in childhood nutrition. I don't think genetically we've been selecting for taller people, as that is harder to conclude (plus, even if woman select for taller men, men do not necessarily select for taller woman, and woman are part of this too let's not forget).

> Women usually marry the millionaire, but have sex with the pool boy. This dual-mating strategy is instinctive.

Yea and the man has concubines, and the prenup? Pretty sure the woman usually doesn't have the pool boy's children in these stories.

EDIT: See here for a study showing after 1980 people have actually been getting shorter (at least in Japan, which can be considered almost a post-modern society when compared to the US) [1].

[1] https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/02/12/national/scienc...

Re: Limb lengthening surgery is becoming more popular

#138

That's incredibly sad, the comparison to boob and nose jobs is apt. It's a symptom of a sick society when people are so insecure about their bodies they feel they have to undergo unnecessary surgery to fit in. My cousin had this procedure done almost 30 years ago, but she was pathologically small, at a height which makes it hard to function.

As someone who got a nose job, I’ve heard this line too many times to count. It seems that people want to believe the only reason I would remove the hump on my nose is because of society’s beauty standards. I’m not allowed to simply not like it. Why this same logic doesn’t apply to hair dye or clothing, I’ll never know. Y’know what’s funny too? I’ve never once met someone who both admired big noses and chose to incre…

Indeed, the basic promise of our social order is individual autonomy and self ownership. Body modification is an exercise is self ownership.

Re: Limb lengthening surgery is becoming more popular

#139
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There's really no difference between a person proudly declaring they only like "white" people and a person declaring they only like "tall" people. I get where you're coming from -- criticizing people for what they are, rather than for what they do, is exceedingly unfair -- but I can think of at least three important differences, chief among which are: 1. The shortness of men (barring outright dwarfism) has never bee…

Height does appear to be correlated with income[1]. So it’s entirely possible that discrimination has existed and continues to exist. People seem to think that because something is difficult to measure, it isn’t there, but that simply isn’t true. Lookism could also be a big problem, but the causal effects of being unattractive are hard to identify. Imagine trying to assemble a treatment and control group for that. Wh…

The difference here is that height is also correlated with nutrition and by proxy social class. Whatever that study says, eradicating that type of confounding from statistical associations is hard/impossible.

Re: Limb lengthening surgery is becoming more popular

#140
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

are you confusing sexual preference with chattel slavery?

Sexual preference is largely shaped by societal influences as well. As I stated at the end there's historical pretext to this: fat women used to be preferred by men. Sexual preferences have changed over time. It's just as wrong as assuming that patriarchal society is some universal truth. Assuming that it is some innate quality that women are attracted to people taller than them is also flawed. What about homosexual…

> As I stated at the end there's historical pretext to this: fat women used to be preferred by men.

Is there a citation? I've heard only the rich were 'plump' in ancient times, though not that it was ever sexually desirable.

> What about homosexual woman? If they both prefer someone taller how does that work?

Nature doesn't always fit our intuition or first hypothesis. IIRC, gay men strongly prefer very fit men, yet they cannot procreate. That struck me as counterintuitive, though if the cause is genetic there could be a variety of factors leading to such genes.

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